[Official] Italian Grand Prix 2018: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Skam85

He has the fastest car. 30pts is a big gap, but it only takes one DNF from Lewis and the gap is cut again (probably). Ferrari’s advantage, despite not being huge, means it is likely that Mercedes won’t outsmart them in every remaining race.

I would like to see him win it, not because I'm a Vettel fan; far from it. I would just like to see someone else win it, rather than Hamilton/Mercedes again, as I don't think it's good for the sport. When Schumi and Ferrari dominated, I stopped watching for a few years, after Austria 2002 fiasco. Ironically, it was the arrival of Lewis Hamilton that got me watching again.

I have my doubts about Vettel. He's made some crucial errors when under pressure this season. However, after going off at his home GP and the summer break, he came back at Spa and looked good for the WDC with that drive but at Monza he found himself on the back foot after Qualifying and the pressure was on again, manifesting in contact with Hamilton.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

I some how doubt Sauber was going to protest Ferrari at their home race.....

Here's a photo of Ericsson locking up trying to avoid Vettel.





Ericsson's onboard shows a better view.

[F1Guy]

Some tentenths.com forum fangurls perhaps?? How far is Monza from Melbourne Australia?

[Dixon9]

16276km

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Some tentenths.com forum fangurls perhaps??

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Interesting that you mention a certain driver retiring from F1 because in the 2012 season, after the Italian GP, Alonso was leading the WDC, with Hamilton 2nd and Vettel 4th and he had a 39 point lead over Vettel also with 7 races to go, though there were only 20 rounds in 2012.

If Vettel knuckles down and drives like he did at Spa, he could win it this year.

Well based on that 2012 comparison, Vettel's car is significantly better than Alonso's was in relation to the main competition, so yes he really ought to!

[karting]

Romain G has been dq’d from the race meaning Sirtokin gets his first F1 points

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I would like to see him win it, not because I'm a Vettel fan; far from it. I would just like to see someone else win it, rather than Hamilton/Mercedes again, as I don't think it's good for the sport. When Schumi and Ferrari dominated, I stopped watching for a few years, after Austria 2002 fiasco. Ironically, it was the arrival of Lewis Hamilton that got me watching again.

I have my doubts about Vettel. He's made some crucial errors when under pressure this season. However, after going off at his home GP and the summer break, he came back at Spa and looked good for the WDC with that drive but at Monza he found himself on the back foot after Qualifying and the pressure was on again, manifesting in contact with Hamilton.

I don't care who wins it. I just want to see a fight in every race that remains. Yes, Lewis could have a DNF, but, on current form, it's just as likely to be Sebastian, particularly as he gets that little bit more desperate to make up the gap. For me, this has #5 for Hamilton written all over it now. More mature and better able to get the job done, even in what is currently not the best race car.

[Adam43]

I think you’re right there. Vettel is just finding too many ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Not dissimilar to last year, except I think the Ferrari is a relatively better car now. The only thing that could stop Hamilton is if he goes into one of his moods. But if he keeps beating Vettel when he shouldn’t that will stop that.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think you’re right there. Vettel is just finding too many ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Not dissimilar to last year, except I think the Ferrari is a relatively better car now. The only thing that could stop Hamilton is if he goes into one of his moods. But if he keeps beating Vettel when he shouldn’t that will stop that.

Talking about his moods, he was saying yesterday about harnessing the negativity, which sounds like a much better way of dealing with things, than reverting to the Lewis of old and getting all petulant. Let's see if he can keep it up for the next 7 races. As it is, I think he's got the better of Vettel, psychologically.

[Adam43]

He really has got the better of him at the moment.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

He really has got the better of him at the moment.

For sure.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

People forget so quickly.

[Adam43]

I can’t speak for the others, but I’m just talking about what is going on at the moment.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Vettel has one bad race out of his control and immediately Hamilton has 'the better of him'. While just a week ago the roles were reversed.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Vettel has one bad race out of his control and immediately Hamilton has 'the better of him'. While just a week ago the roles were reversed.

How was Vettels own driving out of his control? One bad race? So mucking up in Austria, running into Bottas in France and falling off the track in Germany don’t count too?

[Adam43]

Exactly. I am considering the whole of this championship and, if I am honest, some of those mistakes from the previous year which has some parallels. Of course I am also not saying Vettel is out of it. Put in three dominant performances and it might get Hamilton down (I am not forgetting how he can get all miserable and off form). Vettel could do it, I remember him winning a million races in a row years ago and also stealing the championship from Alonso and Webber even more years ago. Please forgive me for commentating on how, at the moment, it’s not looking like that.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

So mucking up in Austria, running into Bottas in France and falling off the track in Germany don’t count too?

Of course not you thilly wabbit.

Because they "were out of his control" don't you know...

[dsg]

Vettel is certainly putting the pressure on himself with a number of costly errors and Hamilton is now odds on favourite for the championship now.

One thing I disagree with is the Ferrari being the better car. I think it is the faster qualifying car but not a faster overall race car than the Mercedes.

At a number of races this year the Ferrari has not looked after its tyres as well as the Mercedes when the driver has been pushing hard. I don't think it is driver specific as it has happened to both Vettel and Kimi.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Of course not you thilly wabbit.

Because they "were out of his control" don't you know...

Clearly. I’m half expecting Sprinkles to start blaming Hamilton for Vettels mistakes soon....he seemingly can’t blame Vettel for anything. If Vettel makes a mistake it’s unlucky or out of his control, I’m not sure who he thinks is in control of Vettels car

[Akrapovic]

I don't really care for Lewis (or Vettel) that much, but I also think Lewis has generally had the upper hand. Spa being the exception, Lewis has been more on the ball this year.

However, we can criticise Vettel all we want (and some here think it's a sport to tell us how evil he is), but what Vettel has done is no worse than any Ferrari driver for the last decade - he and Ferrari are managing to lose, even when they shouldn't. Look at the great Fernandos track record for that in red cars when it comes to titles. So as easy as it is to sit and say "LOL VETTEL IS A SILLY MAN" and other such crap, he's doing as well as Fernando ever did in that team so far.

Ferrari have had an issue with closing the deal and keeping the momentum up since the Schumacher days ended, regardless if the driver is Vettel, Fernando, Massa or Badoer. This is a Ferrari issue as a whole - team, inc drivers.

[Skam85]

You're right, Ferrari since Schumi have had a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
(Kimi's excellent 2007 win over an imploding Lulu/McLaren/Alonso the exception).

2008 Massa drove brilliantly and would have been a more than worthy winner, the pit stop in Singapore and the engine failure in Hungary were Ferrari issues.

2010, Ferrari were too worried about Webber in Abu Dhabi and ruined Alonso's race.

2012, a couple of near misses but the biggest one was Grosjean's hit in Spa. That doesn't completely explain a 39-point lead being squandered though.

Last year was definitely a missed opportunity by both driver and team.
Some signs show they've learned from 2017, others not so much.

Either way, 7 races left, it's going to be a cracking finish to the season. Bring it on.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't really care for Lewis (or Vettel) that much, but I also think Lewis has generally had the upper hand. Spa being the exception, Lewis has been more on the ball this year.

However, we can criticise Vettel all we want (and some here think it's a sport to tell us how evil he is), but what Vettel has done is no worse than any Ferrari driver for the last decade - he and Ferrari are managing to lose, even when they shouldn't. Look at the great Fernandos track record for that in red cars when it comes to titles. So as easy as it is to sit and say "LOL VETTEL IS A SILLY MAN" and other such crap, he's doing as well as Fernando ever did in that team so far.

Ferrari have had an issue with closing the deal and keeping the momentum up since the Schumacher days ended, regardless if the driver is Vettel, Fernando, Massa or Badoer. This is a Ferrari issue as a whole - team, inc drivers.

agree with a large part of this. and I don't think people think hes evil (well I certainly don't) but its right to be able to criticise a sportsperson when they have the upper hand and aren't taking advantage of it or not behaving in a correct manner on track. people have criticised Alonso, Hamilton, vestappen, Schumacher in the past so I don't think its unfair to set vettel to the same standard

[Greem]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

agree with a large part of this. and I don't think people think hes evil (well I certainly don't) but its right to be able to criticise a sportsperson when they have the upper hand and aren't taking advantage of it or not behaving in a correct manner on track. people have criticised Alonso, Hamilton, vestappen, Schumacher in the past so I don't think its unfair to set vettel to the same standard

Indeed; but there's criticism and there's stooping to the lowest level (not pointed at you!).

To be able to criticise properly, one has to be able to see both sides of an argument equally clearly and take a proper principled view of both the thing you agree with and that which you don't. To simply stoop to endless rounds of 'Driver X is the worst ever', ad infinitum, isn't criticism (but most of us know that).

Unfortunately the way discourse on the Internet has developed over the last 10-15 years, everything is either black/white, for/against, right/wrong. Nuance is a dying art!

Still, Ferrari are starting to do that thing they have a history of doing: imploding, bottling it. Hopefully they can rein in the tendency and give us a run to the end of the season that's entertaining for racing rather than political reasons

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

I’m half expecting Sprinkles to start blaming Hamilton for Vettels mistakes soon.

He's not alone it seems. Have a read of THIS article.