Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 26 Mar 2018, 21:20 (Ref:3811086)   #251
Steve McQ
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
France
Posts: 152
Steve McQ should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSteve McQ should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSteve McQ should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I understand that the engine has no direct fuel injection since it's the same cylinder head as the P2 powerplant. Add to this the relatively modest thermal efficiency of a normally aspirated engine vs a turbocharged one and I am not optimistic for the performances of the Gibson cars. Let's hope they are reliable !
Steve McQ is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2018, 07:21 (Ref:3811160)   #252
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
^^^^ +1 .......you took the words right out of my mouth.......I'm getting the wrong vibe from Gibson about this engine.....like you say if they are using the same cylinder head, it therefore cannot be direct fuel injection, therefore they cannot gain a 5% fuel efficiency advantage, which can stretch the fuel stops to another lap at LeMans.......lightweight - who cares......its a V8 and light enough already........low-cost - again who cares, the teams running are wealthy enough to afford a direct injection system.........timescale - it was conceived far too late, and to me has elements of a rush-job about it........I still feel this engine will get trounced by the NISMO-Cosworth-V6, the Mechachrome V6 and the AER turbo engines in terms of outright pace and performance.........the Gibson engine will have a serious torque deficit to these engines and it will show on track........but yes, perhaps it will be more reliable and go the distance, time will tell I guess.
knighty is offline  
__________________
KnighTorque
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2018, 12:58 (Ref:3811235)   #253
BRG
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
England
Gloucestershire
Posts: 96
BRG should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by knighty View Post
^^^^ +1 .......you took the words right out of my mouth.......I'm getting the wrong vibe from Gibson about this engine.....like you say if they are using the same cylinder head, it therefore cannot be direct fuel injection, therefore they cannot gain a 5% fuel efficiency advantage, which can stretch the fuel stops to another lap at LeMans.......lightweight - who cares......its a V8 and light enough already........low-cost - again who cares, the teams running are wealthy enough to afford a direct injection system.........timescale - it was conceived far too late, and to me has elements of a rush-job about it........I still feel this engine will get trounced by the NISMO-Cosworth-V6, the Mechachrome V6 and the AER turbo engines in terms of outright pace and performance.........the Gibson engine will have a serious torque deficit to these engines and it will show on track........but yes, perhaps it will be more reliable and go the distance, time will tell I guess.
I keep bringing up this same point and I wish someone who has looked at the regs will confirm this or not.
The AOC have said they will BPO between different types of technology, so they will BOP the fastest most efficient, powerful Turbo engine against the fastest most powerful NA engine. If the Gibson is the only NA engine then it will have a very favorable BOP whilst also being Simpler to package and most likely more reliable .
BRG is offline  
__________________
"Second Place is just the first loser"
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2018, 14:15 (Ref:3811258)   #254
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I'm sure the ACO will try to BOP, but it will just create a never ending whinging match between teams, just like it did between Audi running a Diesel and Toyota running a Gasoline motor......

Whenever Audi were on the back-foot they always blamed the deficit on the generous rules break the gasoline cars got from the ACO.......PMSL.......Audi didnt complain when they effectively wrote the diesel regs for themselves and handed them to the ACO.......the privateer gasoline cars couldnt hold a candle to the subsequent diesel performance.......... I subsequently worked for one of the powertrain consulting companies that designed and developed one of the V12 diesel LMP1 engines.......over 800hp and over 1400NM of torque......Jesus, gasoline engines didnt stand a chance.

and now look at BOP in IMSA.......compared to the Gibson engine, the factory teams are down the road, its become an open farce there too........even when they tried to BOP the Caddy motor, air restrictors could not limit the whopping low-torque from the 6.2L motor, now 5.5L, hence they were forced to change the gear ratios.
knighty is offline  
__________________
KnighTorque
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2018, 14:40 (Ref:3811264)   #255
Bentley03
Race Official
Veteran
 
Bentley03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
United Kingdom
Posts: 6,041
Bentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRG View Post
I keep bringing up this same point and I wish someone who has looked at the regs will confirm this or not.
The AOC have said they will BPO between different types of technology, so they will BOP the fastest most efficient, powerful Turbo engine against the fastest most powerful NA engine. If the Gibson is the only NA engine then it will have a very favorable BOP whilst also being Simpler to package and most likely more reliable .
These are the relevant regs, but they don't answer your question:

7.4 Equivalence systems (performance and technologies)

7.4.1 Equivalence systems between the different LMP1
propulsion technologies.

In order to limit the differences between the hybrid and nonhybrid
cars, the Endurance Committee will be able to adapt
the performance of the non-hybrid cars in accordance with the
following conditions:

a) The reference will be the calculation of the average lap time
of the fastest car in each technology. The average lap time will
be calculated over the number of laps corresponding to 20%
of the distance of the races (average of the best laps).

The models of the cars with the slowest technologies must
have participated in at least two races and must have been
properly classified in order to be able to benefit from the
application of the rule.
The first adjustment of performance may be applied at any
time by the Endurance Committee.
The Committee will have the right to request any necessary
information from the manufacturers and/or the competitors, in
order to the shed light on the issue at hand. Any such
information will be treated in a strictly confidential manner.

Any competitor having deliberately provided false information
or having attempted to influence an adjustment by hiding its
true level of performance will be penalised by the FIA.

b) Equivalence of Technology of the LMP1 cars
The principles of the EoT, calculated on the basis of the data
collected from the "best in class" of each technology, will be
applied up to the 2018 Le Mans event inclusive, based on the
values specified in Appendix B to the 2018 Technical
Regulations.

It will be up to the Endurance Committee to settle any
questions that might arise concerning the application and/or
interpretation of these elements in the last resort.

d) The competitors and manufacturers are responsible for
providing valid data on request to help the FIA/ACO with the
EoT process.
All competitors and manufacturers that deliberately provided
misinformation, tried to influence the EoT process, or whose
level of performance is higher than the expected result may be
sanctioned with a penalty before, during or after a race.

Minimum penalty: 5-minute stop and go, at the Stewards’
discretion.


Maybe the answer was in part c), which appears to have been omitted...?
Bentley03 is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2018, 14:56 (Ref:3811267)   #256
Bentley03
Race Official
Veteran
 
Bentley03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
United Kingdom
Posts: 6,041
Bentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBentley03 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentley03 View Post
Maybe the answer was in part c), which appears to have been omitted...?
Found it, the answer's in this Daily Sportscar article: Link
Bentley03 is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Mar 2018, 10:17 (Ref:3811451)   #257
BRG
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
England
Gloucestershire
Posts: 96
BRG should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentley03 View Post
Found it, the answer's in this Daily Sportscar article: Link
Good find,

so The simpler non direct injection non turbo Gibson will get the fuel and fuel flow to run with the best turbo's
BRG is offline  
__________________
"Second Place is just the first loser"
Quote
Old 28 Mar 2018, 12:12 (Ref:3811486)   #258
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRG View Post
Good find,

so The simpler non direct injection non turbo Gibson will get the fuel and fuel flow to run with the best turbo's
The ACO are dreaming if they think a bit of fuel flow will equalize things......all the turbo LMP1 teams will play all sorts of sand-bagging and shenanigans in order to keep their cards close to their chests.....the GT class is a classic example.
knighty is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jun 2018, 20:21 (Ref:3827261)   #259
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,342
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Here is a little puff piece for Mecachrome. It doesn't contain any new info but does emphasise that the drivers have to somehow manage their per-lap fuel consumption without the car doing it for them, a la Toyota. Sounds a bit tricky. I hope it doesn't ruin anyone's race.

https://www.lemans.org/en/news/24-ho...the-race/49182
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 13:48 (Ref:3827400)   #260
Yuri G.
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 25
Yuri G. should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by knighty View Post
The ACO are dreaming if they think a bit of fuel flow will equalize things......all the turbo LMP1 teams will play all sorts of sand-bagging and shenanigans in order to keep their cards close to their chests.....the GT class is a classic example.
Do you think SMP could have a sensible advantage in race pace over Rebellion?
Yuri G. is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Jun 2018, 20:11 (Ref:3827862)   #261
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri G. View Post
Do you think SMP could have a sensible advantage in race pace over Rebellion?
I doubt it......it appears the Gibson 4.5 is a very quick and eficient engine, so there's a slice of humble pie for me!.....I have always harboured a belief that the AER v6 is too small on capacity, creating quite a peaky engine with a narrow performance band which needs to be thrashed, so their fuel consumption will not be great.....and I belive the 4.5 has simply exposed it on both fronts....and the nismo 3.0 V6 in the Kolles will probably fly and sip fuel too....it will be fascinating to see how it all pans out on race day, but spa kinda said most of it already.

For the ginetta-mechachrome.....it's having a tough time in GP2 at the moment with all sorts of issues causing race retirements, so one can only hope this does not affect ginetta.
knighty is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How about a LMP1 Pro & LMP1 Privateer class Holt Sportscar & GT Racing 35 6 Jun 2012 13:44
Can someone explain the current detailed rules on the Engines? jellison NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 33 15 Apr 2008 21:39
Current Cosworth Engines????? Peter Nightingale Formula One 11 26 May 2006 18:54
New Engines in LMP1 JAG Sportscar & GT Racing 27 31 Mar 2004 14:25
CURRENT POWER OUTPUTS OF GP AND SUPERBIKE ENGINES? Robin Plummer Racing Technology 3 12 Oct 2000 11:15


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.