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Old 3 May 2018, 13:34 (Ref:3819104)   #26
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Originally Posted by Irie View Post
Im a bit confused did they set a limit on the number of laps or just adjust the tank capacity?
The eot document says


Is this a hard cap or guideline for future EoT?
Tank capacity + max fuel energy per lap defines exact numbers of "green" laps per stint, so yes a hard cap. The only way to get more laps would be to use less fuel than allowed, but of course that degrades performance.
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Old 3 May 2018, 13:35 (Ref:3819105)   #27
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That story, which might be made up nonsense, says Ginetta are funding the #5 so the #6 might be withdrawn if funding is missing.
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Old 3 May 2018, 13:39 (Ref:3819106)   #28
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Am I understanding this correctly? The ACO says, here is how much energy you get per lap, oh but by the way, only go 17 laps on that fuel? How far could teams have gone I wonder?

I like Dragonspeeds response:

“We’re spending a fortune on engines for using a fuel flow sensor. We’re spending triple the money than the P2 engine to run lean, to then save fuel. It’s pretty stupid.”
Hedman is spending a fortune - only for it to be thrown out of the window by getting in the car himself (which I don't blame him for btw). WEC is only making sure that money really goes to waste!
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Old 3 May 2018, 14:31 (Ref:3819112)   #29
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Originally Posted by GasperG View Post
Tank capacity + max fuel energy per lap defines exact numbers of "green" laps per stint, so yes a hard cap. The only way to get more laps would be to use less fuel than allowed, but of course that degrades performance.
Then i don't understand the article by sportscar365 as they cann still run lean to extend their stint
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Old 3 May 2018, 14:56 (Ref:3819116)   #30
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Toyota unload a bit of sand

1.56
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:12 (Ref:3819117)   #31
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We need to stop calling it EoT now. It was an EoT. But when you're setting artificial stint lengths it's no longer EoT and is purely BoP now.

LMP1 is a BoP class now.
Based on a clickbait article by someone who constantly misinterprets stuff to make up headlines?

So far I've seen zero confirmation that a LMP1 car is not allowed to run more than 17 laps in a stint.
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:12 (Ref:3819118)   #32
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Porsche also remove some sand. 2:14.647. That's really shifting for a GT car.
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:40 (Ref:3819122)   #33
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Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles View Post
Based on a clickbait article by someone who constantly misinterprets stuff to make up headlines?

So far I've seen zero confirmation that a LMP1 car is not allowed to run more than 17 laps in a stint.
Decision of the Endurance Committee
SPA 2018 - LE MANS 2018
During the two first race events, the performances will be analysed and checked in comparison with the homologated
data sheet during each session.
If the analysis will not be possible due to lack of confidence of the onboard data or lack of proper dry running conditions,
FIA/ACO will keep the possibility to take some precaution on the fuel allocation of LMP1NH for the race.
If some adjustments are necessary, before Le Mans 2018, it could be done for any engine type (NA or TC) of LMP1NH by:
 Addition of a maximum of +20kg ballast associated with minimum weight increase of +20kg;
 Reduction of the maximum fuel flow (with associated fuel/lap and fuel/stint) without changing engine hardware
homologation;
 Any other adjustments required if necessary.

In terms of stint length, in any case, the maximum number of ‘green’ laps (without safety car, slow zone(s) and not
depending on track conditions) should not exceed 11 laps for LMP1H and 10 laps for LMP1NH in Le Mans 2018 race and
19 laps for LMP1H and 17 laps for LMP1NH in Spa 2018 race.
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:42 (Ref:3819123)   #34
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Presumably that is what is being referred to.
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:51 (Ref:3819125)   #35
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You can still refer to it as EOT as regardless of what's being done and how, it is tweaking between different technologies, not individual cars like in DPi or wherever. Thet're not gonna penalise Rebellion for being faster than ByKolles or grant SMP gifts for being slower than Dragonspeed. They are giving clea advantage to Toyota of course - seemingly on racr by race basis - but they can excuse it with running to different tech set

Of course what they are doing here is done in... Unsatisfactory way to say the least... But it could be worse. And to be frank, IF there is going to be favoritism to either side it's better to be on factory spectrum because they genuinely would be miles ahead of all the nonhybrids anyway if everyone run the same weight and fuel specs, not only in technology but resources too

Anyway going back to proceedings, Ginetta's looking rather awful

Last edited by Deleted; 3 May 2018 at 15:56.
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:56 (Ref:3819128)   #36
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Originally Posted by Chiana View Post

Anyway going back to proceedings, Ginetta's looking rather awful
I accept full responsibility...

"Still trying to work out how we have 10 spend-what-you-like LMP1s but 8 cost capped LMP2s, but I'm very happy about it."
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:57 (Ref:3819129)   #37
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Originally Posted by Chiana View Post
You can still refer to it as EOT as regardless of what's being done and how, it is balancing between different technologies, not individual cars like in DPi or wherever. Thet're not gonna penalise Rebellion for being faster than ByKolles or grant SMP gifts for being slower than Dragonspeed. They are giving clea advantage to Toyota of course but they can excuse it with hybrids

Of course what they are doing here is done in... Unsatisfactory ways... But it could be worse. And to be frank, if there is going to be favoritism to either side it's better to be on factory side because tgey genuinely would be miles ahead of all the nonhybrids anyway if everyone run the same general specs, not only in technology but resources too

Anyway going back to proceedings, Ginetta's looking rather awful
Eot is working as intended imo, because the lmp1's (aside Toyota) are fast, and will get faster as they get up to speed, literally and figuratively. As far as the fuel stints go, it was stated months ago Toyota would have a 1 lap advantage at Le Mans, that's going to translate to more than 1 lap at other tracks. My bet is that the race pace is going to start going to favor non-hybrids. I'm hoping that at least. And GTE is flying, that's close to late GT1 pace already in only 2 practice sessions.
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Old 3 May 2018, 15:59 (Ref:3819130)   #38
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Originally Posted by Mike E View Post
I accept full responsibility...

"Still trying to work out how we have 10 spend-what-you-like LMP1s but 8 cost capped LMP2s, but I'm very happy about it."
Hmm yes

But this is not really Manor's fault nor their questionable sponsor situations but rather Ginetta not putting pressure and resources. They screwed their otherwise promisingly starting LMP3 program the same way, effectively
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:01 (Ref:3819131)   #39
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Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Eot is working as intended imo, because the lmp1's (aside Toyota) are fast, and will get faster as they get up to speed, literally and figuratively. As far as the fuel stints go, it was stated months ago Toyota would have a 1 lap advantage at Le Mans, that's going to translate to more than 1 lap at other tracks. My bet is that the race pace is going to start going to favor non-hybrids. I'm hoping that at least. And GTE is flying, that's close to late GT1 pace already in only 2 practice sessions.
They stated the one-lap LM hybrid advantage very early on but it always seemed more of a guideline than actual regulative implementation/mandation
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:08 (Ref:3819133)   #40
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I still don't believe it's regulative mandation. I think if you want to use less fuel per lap than the allowed maximum to stretch the stint you can do so. There was always a maximum Energy per lap and fuel tank size. Dragonspeed are just not happy that the values got changed
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:10 (Ref:3819134)   #41
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They stated the one-lap LM hybrid advantage very early on but it always seemed more of a guideline than actual regulative implementation/mandation
I don't see what a guideline would be stated for. If they say hybrid has an efficiency advantage of a lap at LM, that seems pretty set in stone. I think the fact that this information is being talked about now is a little funny. Maybe because the exact wording is being released? Maybe because non-hybrids are taken aback a little at the fact they have to adhere to being 'short-stinted'? Maybe they can underfuel their car now and save some time during pit stops or run lighter?
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:12 (Ref:3819136)   #42
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Umm, Ford? 2:13.733. Wow. That's an all-time fastest GT lap. Faster than the Larbre Saleen in 2008 which did 2:13.923.
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:15 (Ref:3819137)   #43
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They stated the one-lap LM hybrid advantage very early on but it always seemed more of a guideline than actual regulative implementation/mandation
That's because it is. You will notice nowhere in any of the rules or regulations does it say a car is prohibited from doing 18 laps on a stint at Spa. The wording is very clear: the EoT is meant to be set up in such a way that Toyota will have a one lap advantage in stint length. That was always the intention. Extrapolated to Spa that means the non-hybrid cars should do 17 laps on a green stint. The rest of the text is simply a contingency. Say for example Rebellion manage to do 18 lap stints at Spa this race, there is either something wrong with the EoT calculations or the measurements taken at the Prologue and they can make changes as outlined in that document.

Maximum fuel tank fill was always part of the EoT, from the very start. The only thing that's changed is that the non-hybrid cars get a cut in maximum fuel fill. This was already announced and discussed two weeks ago, when Dagys already took a shot at the ACO by calling it a 'slowdown' of the privateer cars when there hadn't even been a race yet.

This whole article is a complete disgrace and yet another example of the complete lack of any journalistic integrity of mr Dagys. It almost makes me angry that people seem to take his opinion disguised as a clickbaity 'news' article as fact already. It does immense damage to the WEC as a championship.
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:17 (Ref:3819138)   #44
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I don't see what a guideline would be stated for. If they say hybrid has an efficiency advantage of a lap at LM, that seems pretty set in stone. I think the fact that this information is being talked about now is a little funny. Maybe because the exact wording is being released? Maybe because non-hybrids are taken aback a little at the fact they have to adhere to being 'short-stinted'? Maybe they can underfuel their car now and save some time during pit stops or run lighter?
IDK "Should not exceed" as in the committee bulletin has a smell of desperation to it

But all in all, I don't think any of this is gonna matter at LM because beyond qualifying and first segments of the race, that event most likely won't have anything do with performance this year, but survival
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:17 (Ref:3819139)   #45
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I think it is still proper EoT. We have very capable nonhybrids it seems in terms of speed. The hybrid should be more fuel efficient by definition, right? And it is.
How much further could Toyota go if they had the same fuel tank size as privateers?
So 1 lap more at LM is not so much.
They (both Toyota and ACO) should be able to showcase the hybrid technology IMHO.
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3819142)   #46
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Umm, Ford? 2:13.733. Wow. That's an all-time fastest GT lap. Faster than the Larbre Saleen in 2008 which did 2:13.923.
That is amazing. These guys are going to be in the 2:12's come qualifying! Lmp2 was barely faster than that a couple years ago.
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:22 (Ref:3819143)   #47
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"In terms of stint length, in any case, the maximum number of ‘green’ laps (without safety car, slow zone(s) and not
depending on track conditions) should not exceed 11 laps for LMP1H and 10 laps for LMP1NH in Le Mans 2018 race and
19 laps for LMP1H and 17 laps for LMP1NH in Spa 2018 race."
The wording is important. Should means that the ACO's calculations show that the no-hybrids will have sufficient fuel to do 17 laps. Not a hard and fast regulation. Must would mean that they are not allowed to do any more than 17 no matter how much fuel they put in the car.
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:23 (Ref:3819145)   #48
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That is amazing. These guys are going to be in the 2:12's come qualifying! Lmp2 was barely faster than that a couple years ago.
I'd say that was a quali sim by Ford. Speaking of qualifying, are we still doing the two lap,two driver average this year?
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:25 (Ref:3819146)   #49
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Originally Posted by RedSquirrel View Post
"In terms of stint length, in any case, the maximum number of ‘green’ laps (without safety car, slow zone(s) and not
depending on track conditions) should not exceed 11 laps for LMP1H and 10 laps for LMP1NH in Le Mans 2018 race and
19 laps for LMP1H and 17 laps for LMP1NH in Spa 2018 race."
The wording is important. Should means that the ACO's calculations show that the no-hybrids will have sufficient fuel to do 17 laps. Not a hard and fast regulation. Must would mean that they are not allowed to do any more than 17 no matter how much fuel they put in the car.
Reading it like that, this statement makes sense. "Should not exceed" means if it does, the ACO's calculations are wrong or the team is doing better than it let on.
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Old 3 May 2018, 16:30 (Ref:3819147)   #50
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It's hardly EoT if you're actually building it so they aren't equivalent. I've always defended the EoT against BoP, but it's no longer equivalency.
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