FIA WTCR 2020 News & Rumours

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Rubio

Interestingly enough (and for some reason not communicated by anybody), sporting rules for 2020 allow teams to run a 3rd car for a rookie driver. THis rookie driver will not be eligible to score for the Teams' title though
And there is no limit per manufacturer (a shame really, because I feel there is a risk that half of the field will run Hyundais)

Article 13.8. Except for the race-by-race entries, a competitor must enter
two (2) cars. A competitor may enter one (1) additional car for a "rookie" driver as per Article 6.2.

Strange that it was never officially announced. Good to see more rookies get a chance, but I do agree we risk a Hyundai takeover. I guess it'a better that than a 12 car grid!

Hopefully the announcements start picking up soon.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Typical Juntos, having a meltdown about grid sizes... Funny how they often end up about right when it actually gets to the first race.

Last minute deals.
Cheap deals.
We all know how it works.
When you learn, teach.

[Alessio]

In all fairness, there were roughly 3 times more entries announced this time last year. I think Hyundai and Cyan have some yet to be announced deals worked out, possibly PWR and Cupra too, but aside from that it does seem very uncertain..the grid size should still be better than TC1 though (fingers crossed firmly).

The main problem TCR has is justifying the expense compared to competing in GT3.

[Juntos]

If the deals were in place, and everything was just fine, we'd have hear more announcements by now.

Even Cyan and Hyundai have their own headaches.

[thetool]

The main problem is the series isn't sure what it is meant to be. The series allegedly doesn't have works entries (albeit a few are indistinguishable from being works entries) yet goes to a load of venues that have little appeal to the wealthy amateur driver (Morocco, China, Korea and Malaysia might interest manufacturers, but not most gentlemen drivers). And the 4 of the 5 rounds in Europe are pretty uninspiring too. Compare that with a GT series, where the amateur can get a top line driver to share his car with, race a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Mercedes and travel to a range of top circuits in Europe such as Brands Hatch, Zandvoort, Catalunya, Silverstone and Spa Francorchamps, it's not difficult to see why GT makes a lot more sense.

[Alessio]

We’re not talking about gentleman drivers like Douglas Khoo here..but the young 20-something year olds like Denis Dupont or Ben Lessennes. They still need to find a budget to go racing themselves, so why do it in a slower car with less exposure on worse tracks for the same money?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by thetool

The main problem is the series isn't sure what it is meant to be. The series allegedly doesn't have works entries (albeit a few are indistinguishable from being works entries) yet goes to a load of venues that have little appeal to the wealthy amateur driver (Morocco, China, Korea and Malaysia might interest manufacturers, but not most gentlemen drivers). And the 4 of the 5 rounds in Europe are pretty uninspiring too. Compare that with a GT series, where the amateur can get a top line driver to share his car with, race a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Mercedes and travel to a range of top circuits in Europe such as Brands Hatch, Zandvoort, Catalunya, Silverstone and Spa Francorchamps, it's not difficult to see why GT makes a lot more sense.

Who said WTCR is for gentlemen drivers? In GT racing there is big space for amateurs but WTCR is a World Cup (however poor this is) and these are professional teams and drivers that are in the foreground. Still, it doesn't change the fact that rounds in countries such as China or Malaysia are of little interest for these.

[Umai Naa]

SLR out.

[iceman-1987]

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2020...irm-wtcr-exit/

they said they would like to continue in touring car racing altough their exit from wtcr. I wonder if they plan to move to TCR Europe with VW or if they just want to act like Romeo Ferraris that built and sell cars in all tcr national championship.

[Csaba]

Originally Posted by Alessio

We’re not talking about gentleman drivers like Douglas Khoo here..but the young 20-something year olds like Denis Dupont or Ben Lessennes. They still need to find a budget to go racing themselves, so why do it in a slower car with less exposure on worse tracks for the same money?

But we most not forget, that GT3 cheaper because: MORE DRIVERS SHARE THE SAME CAR. Sorry for Caps Lock, but this is one of the most important pieces of the story. But I must admit that prices went crazy in TCR in a very short time. Dutch teenager Danny Kroes who competed in TCR Europe in 2018 left, because the money involved in the "second tier" series was on the same level as Blancpain. To talk about exact numbers, the father of Danny said in the TCR Talk Facebook group last year, that you need almost 200-300 thousand euro for a top seat in TCR Europe, and you can race in Blacpain for half of that, due to the car being shared among 2-3 drivers.

To start another topic, the case of SLR is sad lets see if Bennani and/or Huff end up in a seat elsewhere.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Csaba

But we most not forget, that GT3 cheaper because: MORE DRIVERS SHARE THE SAME CAR.

The cars are shared but drivers receive similar track time compared to WTCR

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

SLR out.

No surprise. VW was bankrolling the whole game. Too many people spend money they earned..to buy things they don't want..to impress people that they don't like.

[Mark0994]

Originally Posted by Csaba

But we most not forget, that GT3 cheaper because: MORE DRIVERS SHARE THE SAME CAR. Sorry for Caps Lock, but this is one of the most important pieces of the story. But I must admit that prices went crazy in TCR in a very short time. Dutch teenager Danny Kroes who competed in TCR Europe in 2018 left, because the money involved in the "second tier" series was on the same level as Blancpain. To talk about exact numbers, the father of Danny said in the TCR Talk Facebook group last year, that you need almost 200-300 thousand euro for a top seat in TCR Europe, and you can race in Blacpain for half of that, due to the car being shared among 2-3 drivers.

To start another topic, the case of SLR is sad lets see if Bennani and/or Huff end up in a seat elsewhere.

It's crazy when you think how big amount of money you need for touring series. 300k for TCR Europe, 500k for BTCC, who knows how many for Supercars. I always thought that touring should be cheap. It NEEDS to be cheap. It should be series where you buy normal street car, install safety cage, do some other tweaks, add normal BoP (not 97.5% Hyundai and Lynk are faster then 100% Golf...). I hope that this new FIA small cars touring class is much cheaper and balanced, same with eTCR. Big + for eTCR is that every car will use same layout, same batteries, so that should be interesting.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Mark0994

It's crazy when you think how big amount of money you need for touring series. 300k for TCR Europe, 500k for BTCC, who knows how many for Supercars. I always thought that touring should be cheap.

Except for the fact that in Supercars most drivers are paid and don't have to pay themselves.
Maybe touring cars should be cheap but in comparison to things like formulas or DTM it is still cheap. I don't think racing could be really much cheaper than it is. Some measures to lower costs are taken (TCR is cheap in comparison to former WTCC) but it'll always be expensive. TCR is a perfect example. It was meant to be cheap but with time the costs have been inevitably rising. I think it has always been the case in motorsport.

[TR4racer]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Except for the fact that in Supercars most drivers are paid and don't have to pay themselves.
Maybe touring cars should be cheap but in comparison to things like formulas or DTM it is still cheap. I don't think racing could be really much cheaper than it is. Some measures to lower costs are taken (TCR is cheap in comparison to former WTCC) but it'll always be expensive. TCR is a perfect example. It was meant to be cheap but with time the costs have been inevitably rising. I think it has always been the case in motorsport.

The cars cost up to €150k each in TCR and, for some manufactures, that is selling them at a loss. Car hire to a driver is €40k for the season if you do not own your own car. Entry fees and Insurance takes up another €40k (€19.5k and €20.5k respectively). Tyres, using your seasons full allocation, is €32k, then transportation, service items, team fees, fuel, running costs, car preparation, damage, etc. And the team need to make some money.....easy to get to €300k.

So i agree, TCR is cheap.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by TR4racer

The cars cost up to €150k each in TCR and, for some manufactures, that is selling them at a loss. Car hire to a driver is €40k for the season if you do not own your own car. Entry fees and Insurance takes up another €40k (€19.5k and €20.5k respectively). Tyres, using your seasons full allocation, is €32k, then transportation, service items, team fees, fuel, running costs, car preparation, damage, etc. And the team need to make some money.....easy to get to €300k.

So i agree, TCR is cheap.

Yes, comparing it to different championship it is relatively cheap. Nevertheless, in the beginning TCR was meant to be a cheap form of racing but manufacturer's participation raised costs.

[Petoli]

TCR has gotten expensive but the cost of previous regulation got expensive

In the 80s we had Group A, That got too expensive, so the regulations that became Supertouring were introduced as a way to lower costs. By the late 1990s that became too expensive,
I have heard Ford spent around £20 Million to win the BTCC in 2000,

So has a way to lower costs S2000 was introduced but that then became too expensve, so TCR was introduced as a cheaper alternative.

Now TCR costs seem to be creeping up and in a few years someone will probably introduce a cheaper replacement for TCR, and eventually that regulation will also become too expensive.

[Matt K]

Exactly what I was thinking about. Creating rules that are cheap and WILL stay cheap is a utopia.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Yes, comparing it to different championship it is relatively cheap. Nevertheless, in the beginning TCR was meant to be a cheap form of racing but manufacturer's participation raised costs.

It’s inevitable, all the way from Formula 1 through to Karting . Those that can afford it will find every possible way to gain that minimal advantage.

One of the few exceptions I can think of in customer Motorsport is GT3 which is nearly 10 years old now and still going strong, so SRO have definitely done something right to manage the expenses even with a high level of manufacturer support.

Hopefully, eTCR will be cost managed better over time, but if it works it’ll undoubtedly attract OEM money again and lead to costs spiralling upwards again..or alternatively cement the Formula for the future.

[GusGasfuss]

As far as i can oversee it, the Superstars series from last decade was a brilliant thing...building spectacular cars from street cars. Maybe it is now the time for something like that.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Except for the fact that in Supercars most drivers are paid and don't have to pay themselves.
Maybe touring cars should be cheap but in comparison to things like formulas or DTM it is still cheap. I don't think racing could be really much cheaper than it is. Some measures to lower costs are taken (TCR is cheap in comparison to former WTCC) but it'll always be expensive. TCR is a perfect example. It was meant to be cheap but with time the costs have been inevitably rising. I think it has always been the case in motorsport.

Only a handful of full time Supercars drivers are directly employed by the team these days.

The rest take a minimal salary from a cut of the sponsorship they bring to secure the drive.

TCR cars are meant to be cheap to run. It's the teams that run them that jack the costs up, when they want to run at the front of the field. Those guys are throwing dampers and short-life engines at them every event, multiple gearboxes throughout the weekend, new pads and rotors for every session...

These cars were intended to do a season on one gearbox and set of dampers, two seasons on an engine, and pads and rotors every 1-2 meetings.

[smithhehehaha]

Looks unclear for the new season, as the series allows more "independent" teams to participate, but we also see many seasoned participants are getting out from this kitchen.

[GusGasfuss]

Anyone still knows/remembers, if ahead of last season there were more possible entries, if there was not a limit per manufacturer?


In the moment, we lost "only" VW, maybe Alfa. I would say, an Audi-team could be still possible, even if not factory support.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

As far as i can oversee it, the Superstars series from last decade was a brilliant thing...building spectacular cars from street cars. Maybe it is now the time for something like that.

I’d love to see something along the lines of that, bring it back to how it was in the 70s/80s where the ‘average joe’ could build something up and compete competitively amongst some of the big names

[iceman-1987]

https://it.motorsport.com/wtcr/news/...ciali/4679514/

Reading the interview of Adamo the only tcr driver confirmed is Luca Engstler but it's not clear if he will race in WTCR (Hyundai didn't confirm yet if they will be in WTCR 2020) or again in some other TCR championship.

If he should enter in wtcr team (imho) I think the more likely to be replaced would be Tarquini.