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12 Nov 2018, 14:39 (Ref:3862759) | #301 | |
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Incorrect. He was behind by quite some margin and had absolutely no reason to plow into the side of the Red Bull.
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12 Nov 2018, 14:41 (Ref:3862760) | #302 | |||
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this 100 percent but hey its youth over experience, its something Lewis has had to learn too. only difference is, lewis learnt...max seems somewhat stubborn |
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12 Nov 2018, 14:50 (Ref:3862763) | #303 | |||
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There's none so blind as those that cannot see, they say...... As Turn 1 follows immediately into Turn 2, I find it somewhat difficult to comprehend how Ocon was "well behind before Turn 2" when the visual evidence as shown above clearly show Ocon alongside but maybe 1/3 back as Verstappens quicker line through Turn 1 allows him to claw back the position. Verstappen could (and clearly in a sensible world should) have maintained his race-leading position by taking a wider line through 2. As for idiotic conspiracy theories......... |
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12 Nov 2018, 14:50 (Ref:3862764) | #304 | |||
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photos don't lie. there is damage to Maxs car under the B of Bull, so Ocon was at least half way alongside at the point of contact. if this was 2 people fighting for position, Max would have been penilised for turning in on Ocon. as for B and Bull.....well il let your argument fill in the last 4 letters ;-P https://twitter.com/OconEsteban/stat...34110467682309 |
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12 Nov 2018, 14:54 (Ref:3862765) | #305 | ||
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12 Nov 2018, 14:57 (Ref:3862766) | #306 | ||
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Not sure where Lancs was incorrect there. he stated Ocon was alongside (which he was) and Max could have given more room (which he could have)
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12 Nov 2018, 15:00 (Ref:3862768) | #307 | |||
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Come on - this arguing black is white just for the sake of it is getting tedious. By definition "quite some margin" means "marginal". Taking chances on a marginal call is risky. Verstappen took the risk and lost. Needlessly. I'm sure, and hope, he'll be a champion some day.....but if he doesn't grow up soon LeClerc will beat him to it. |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:04 (Ref:3862769) | #308 | ||
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Verstappen did not take a chance or a risk. No driver should expect a lapped car to fight for position. Verstappen did exactly what he was supposed to do. Ocon is the only one who took a unjustifiable risk and Verstappen paid the price for it. I will remind you once again Ocon was penalized with a 10 second stop and go which is the harshest penalty short of exclusion. Charlie Whiting has succinctly explained why. |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:12 (Ref:3862772) | #309 | |||
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Fact is, he could have given space, he knew Ocon was quicker and alongside into turn 1/2, and was in tyre protection mode. there was ZERO point in risking a situation with a driver that had nothing to lose and risk coming off worse, which he did. This is exactly the point that Lewis and others were making to Max after the race.....and I hope for his own career that he starts to take that advice onboard. Kids got immense talent, but needs some racing savvy to maximise it |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:15 (Ref:3862773) | #310 | ||
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another aspect of this (which i dont think i have seen mentioned here yet) is that a backmarker decided to insert his nose into a title battle. not RB's battle per say and perhaps a forgone conclusion for Merc, but still a potential Max win could have extended the constructors to the last race of the season.
there is an etiquette here that exists beyond the rule book imo. that said, the question about how Max should have handled it is for me somewhat of a separate issue. maybe it 's just hindsight for us fans, but in the moment Max should have had a better understanding of the physics involved. |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:15 (Ref:3862774) | #311 | ||
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12 Nov 2018, 15:17 (Ref:3862776) | #312 | |||
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12 Nov 2018, 15:19 (Ref:3862777) | #313 | |||
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You're on to something! It's called hindsight bias, or historian's fallacy:
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12 Nov 2018, 15:23 (Ref:3862780) | #314 | |
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Yeah, except the "knew-it-all-along" idea falls apart when it's a common event. Drivers learn to pick and choose their battles. Lewis did, and commented on it. But I guess Lewis "just knew it all along".
It's like blaming someone for being hit by lightning when they decide to take shelter under a tree. |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:23 (Ref:3862781) | #315 | |||
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Max knew Ocon was there and still chose to risk it and turn in. Instead, Max should have thought about it properly and not stood in an empty field during a thunderstorm, and completely avoid the situation That's what we call experience and common sense |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:24 (Ref:3862782) | #316 | |||
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But Ocon un-lapping himself was not interfering with any championship points, so the fact that he was a backmarker doesn't really enter into the affair. It was the immaturity of Verstappen that caused the coming together. A win is a win regardless of how many of the field you have lapped - one less would not have devalued the achievement of crossing the line first at the chequered flag. |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:24 (Ref:3862783) | #317 | |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:24 (Ref:3862784) | #318 | ||
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Ocon probably should have backed out a bit when trying to unlap the leader.
Verstappen probably should have presumed that Ocon's car hadn't magically vanished when he turned in. Everyone blames everyone. Max seems like a bit of a bellend. |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:27 (Ref:3862785) | #319 | ||
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12 Nov 2018, 15:28 (Ref:3862786) | #320 | ||
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12 Nov 2018, 15:28 (Ref:3862787) | #321 | |
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12 Nov 2018, 15:30 (Ref:3862790) | #322 | ||
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12 Nov 2018, 15:30 (Ref:3862791) | #323 | ||
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but they do unlap themselves on a regular basis. fighting takes 2 drivers, ocon went to overtake, both had 2 choices, keep their foot in or back off...neither wanted to yield, the responsibility falls more on Ocons side to back out, hence the penalty, but purely from a self preservation POV Max should have given more space
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12 Nov 2018, 15:31 (Ref:3862792) | #324 | ||
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12 Nov 2018, 15:32 (Ref:3862793) | #325 | |
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Ok, thanks for that completely irrelevant post once again. But for the sake of argument: there was no thunderstorm nor metal clubs in this scenario.
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