Question about Brock & Bathurst 1988?

[db120176]

Originally Posted by racer69

Now what would have happened if one of the 'registered' WTCC teams in 1987 had gone for #5. Would we have had uproar, as Brock wouldn't have been able to use it on a Holden? As it was the Moffat/Harvey car had run #5 in their limited WTCC appearances that year, but as they hadn't paid up and registered, they couldn't lay claim to things like numbers (nor trophies even :rolleyes.

Good question. I do remember Moffat / Harvey registering foir #9 at Bathurst, and Andy Rouse taking #8 before the two merged. I guess Moffat / Harvey knew better than taking the traditional number off a legend

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

It was UTC, but you were spot on about all the other details. It was in 1988 when they didn't actually make the race.

There seem to have been more than a few tie-ins between sponsorship and racing numbers over the years. HRT (#015) and TKR (#021) for telecommunications companies; Brock and Terri Sawyer with #05 and Bryan Sala with #00 for TAC blood-alcohol limits; Tim Slako (#96) and Steve Masterton (#2) for radio stations.

But isn't this sort of thing prohibited in the CAMS NCRs?



Quite a few have done that over the years; Jim Richards in '85 and '90 (although for some reason he went back to #2 for the AGP meeting in 1990, then back to #1 for the Nissan 500 the next Saturday); Glenn Seton in 1997; Lowndes (as you mentioned) in 1998.

The Brut 33 Falcon of 1974 was where that attitude started to change. Like most small exceptions like this it became fundable by cash.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by db120176

I think it was an FIA regulation that the numbers had to be divided by classes, the M3 having to take a number over 50. More proof, besides the 1987 Bathurst, that the whole Group A era was a disaster for fans.

Oh yeah its Group A's fault for everything. This sort of rose coloured glass comment convenient ignores just how sick Group C had become.

[rdmdog]

IIRC Brock was also forced to remove his Australian National Flag from the roof of his car due to JMB and the other cheese eating surrender monkeys declaring it was "Advertising" which was not allowed above the window line at the time.

At what time did the numbers become of a controlled size and location? must have been late 70's? I believe you can still apply for dispensation from CAMS for the typeset, size and colour scheme of your race numbers, wether it would get approved or not is another matter!

Trying to think of other people who have tied their sponsors into their race numbers...

Brut 33
96 FM (Barbagello)
05, but did Brock ever get much in the way of funding from road safety mobs?
Maybe in some other classes it has been more prelevant?

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

IIRC Brock was also forced to remove his Australian National Flag from the roof of his car due to JMB and the other cheese eating surrender monkeys declaring it was "Advertising" which was not allowed above the window line at the time.

The '87 Great Race book mentions this, and it also describes how utterly incensed Graham Moore was about having to remove a musical note from the roof of his car for the same reason! A car sponsored, of course, by Strathfield Car Radios.

Originally Posted by rdmdog

Trying to think of other people who have tied their sponsors into their race numbers...

Another to tie their sponsor to their number, although in this case it was more of a lucky coincidence than any deliberate planning, was Jim Richards in his Brock M3 in '88. Wonder how happy Mobil's advertising men were when they found out Richo's car would look like this*:




*Wasn't able to find an actual picture, so I hope no-one minds this blatant showing-off of one of the cars in the Touring Car Legends mod being developed for rFactor

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Oh yeah its Group A's fault for everything. This sort of rose coloured glass comment convenient ignores just how sick Group C had become.

Exactly right, and in many ways Group C only looked healthy 1984 because Group A was starting the following. As i mentioned earlier in the thread the only teams who really would have committed to Group C beyond 1984 was Holden & Nissan.

Originally Posted by rdmdog

IIRC Brock was also forced to remove his Australian National Flag from the roof of his car due to JMB and the other cheese eating surrender monkeys declaring it was "Advertising" which was not allowed above the window line at the time.

The European teams only started jumping up and down about car number styling & roof signage because they were forced by the ARDC to display "James Hardie 1000" stickers on the sides of their cars.

[Wrighty05]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

The '87 Great Race book mentions this, and it also describes how utterly incensed Graham Moore was about having to remove a musical note from the roof of his car for the same reason! A car sponsored, of course, by Strathfield Car Radios.



Another to tie their sponsor to their number, although in this case it was more of a lucky coincidence than any deliberate planning, was Jim Richards in his Brock M3 in '88. Wonder how happy Mobil's advertising men were when they found out Richo's car would look like this*:




*Wasn't able to find an actual picture, so I hope no-one minds this blatant showing-off of one of the cars in the Touring Car Legends mod being developed for rFactor

Just a question. Why is there Dunlop's on that BMW? Were they running Dunlops with the Bridgestone sponsorship?

[racer69]

At one stage, 1986 from memory, the Brock team was sponsored by Bridgestone, but not obligated to use their products, perhaps it was the same there.

The other reason could be as WDJ said the pic is from a game, the Dunlops tyres could just be the generic tyres from the game...

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by Wrighty05

Just a question. Why is there Dunlop's on that BMW? Were they running Dunlops with the Bridgestone sponsorship?

As far as I know, they always ran Bridgestones on the Mobil M3s.

They're just the wheels that were on the model in the modelling program I use to check the liveries on before I put them in-game. Once we're done, they'll have the proper white-centred Simmons wheels, but will most probably have no brand identification on the sidewalls to make the size of the mod a little more manageable.

That said, there were quite a few occasions over the years where the tyres on the car weren't manufactured by the tyre company sponsoring the car...

[Wrighty05]

Yeah I knew that in 1986 Brock didn't have to run Bridgestone's. In fact I think Harvey ran Dunlop's in bathurst that year.

[hypo]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

Trying to think of other people who have tied their sponsors into their race numbers...

Brut 33
96 FM (Barbagello)
05, but did Brock ever get much in the way of funding from road safety mobs?
Maybe in some other classes it has been more prelevant?

Didn't GSR/Peter Jackson Racing use #30 and #35 to tie in with the amount of smokes you got in a packet of that particular brand?

Most obvious ones I can think of is the Channel 7 'rainbow' logo around the DJ Greens Tuff XE #17. Also the Channel 9 Bartlett Camaro

EDIT: Mark Larkham had #10 for his Mitre 10 deal and No Baloney Tony used #25 for the same reason as Peter Jackson Racing in the Freeport/Benson & Hedges days

[db120176]

Originally Posted by hypo

Most obvious ones I can think of is the Channel 7 'rainbow' logo around the DJ Greens Tuff XE #17.

Bob Morris prior to this also in Toranas, a Commodore and a Falcon

[racer69]

Originally Posted by db120176

Bob Morris prior to this also in Toranas, a Commodore and a Falcon

On his Dolomite & Gemini too


Alot of cars carried the Channel 7 backing & logo over the networks major motorsport years (70s & 80s), others include Peter Williamson's Toyota (ran #77, with a pair of the logo's), Bob Jane's Monza, Charlie O'Brien on his BMW 635csi, the Bob Jane BMW at Bathurst 1986


There were also the likes of John Briggs with his Channel 9 backing on his Monza, Garry Rogers has ABC Sports backing on his Sports Sedan Torana, John Goss had NBN backing and later Network 10 backing for his Group C Jaguar XJS, Andrew Harris had Channel 9 backing on his Falcon in 1983 (the one that became Johnson's Channel 7-backed Falcon at Bathurst year)

Bob Morris had Network 10 backing on his Mazda in 1987, while Bob Jane in 1981 ran the Adelaide Sports Sedan round backed by Network 10, then later ran at Calder backed by Channel 7.

[rdmdog]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

The '87 Great Race book mentions this, and it also describes how utterly incensed Graham Moore was about having to remove a musical note from the roof of his car for the same reason! A car sponsored, of course, by Strathfield Car Radios.



Another to tie their sponsor to their number, although in this case it was more of a lucky coincidence than any deliberate planning, was Jim Richards in his Brock M3 in '88. Wonder how happy Mobil's advertising men were when they found out Richo's car would look like this*:




*Wasn't able to find an actual picture, so I hope no-one minds this blatant showing-off of one of the cars in the Touring Car Legends mod being developed for rFactor

After seeing a few photos recently, I noticed the Rothmans ANZ Moffat Harvey Commodore had a Rothmans sign on the roof. Monza (1987?)

How many other rounds did this car complete?

[Wrighty05]

Definitely Monza and Spa.

Running a Burns engine too.

[racer69]

Moffat/Harvey did Monza (Rd1 - 1st), Jarama (Rd2 - DNF), Dijon (Rd3 - DNF) & Spa (Rd5 - 4th). Was also entered for Bathurst as #9, but his entry was merged with the Rouse/Tassin #8 Sierra entry (becoming #9 Ford Sierra)

[Gaz170]

Incidently, didn't Moff & Harves do Spa with just 2 drivers after the 3rd driver (Tony Mulvhill?) failed to qualify for some reason or other?

[racer69]

Spot on, Mulvihill failed to set a time within 130%(?) of the quickest qualifier..... his run may have been affected by the weather though from memory....either way Moffat & Harvey did it themselves. It actually wasn't that uncommon in those days, it was only in the mid-80s that three-drivers per car in a 24hr race became the norm, previously it was two (and even fewer, Pierre Levegh came within two hours of winning the 1952 Le Mans 24hrs driving solo)

[racer2_uk]

Hi Racer69 and all, I have finished the Nurburgring 24hr 5 times in total, 3 times driving with my brother Gareth, in 2002 we were the 1st "two driver" team to finish, 40th out of around 220 starter's in our Vectra V6, it really is hard work but very satisfying, Moffat and Harvey would have enjoyed it.

Andy

[racer69]

Originally Posted by racer2_uk

Moffat and Harvey would have enjoyed it.

Andy

Indeed, Harvey is quoted in a recent interview saying that they were better off Mulvihill wasn't allowed to start