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Old 26 Jan 2004, 13:16 (Ref:851093)   #1
Dan Rear
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March 782

It had to happen I guess, a thread on this classic.

Over on TNF someone posted re the above, wanting info on nos. built, Japanese cars, subsequent histories etc. Allen Brown suggested 10/10ths may be a more suitable home for the subject. I agree, bearing in mind our recent items on various Chevron/Brabham/Ralt/Lola and so on.

From memory I can't recall how many were made in 78, was it 22 ? I wonder whether any followed after, I realise the 79B was very similar, later Atlantics too.

Is it possible to build up a list of them I wonder ??
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Old 26 Jan 2004, 17:59 (Ref:851424)   #2
David McKinney
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I believe 29 were built, though whether or not that includes Keiji Matsumotoís Datsun-powered 782P I donít know. On top of that were 19 near-identical 782Bs, at least one of which raced in Asia with a Datsun engine, though most went to the US for F/Atlantic. Not to mention 11 Formula 3/FSV versions (783)
I used to keep detailed records of every single-seater chassis number I could find, but it got to be almost a fulltime job and I had backed off before the 782 was invented. Canít therefore help much with chassis numbers, apart from:
No.1 was the first (really), which Giacomelli drove at Donington late in 1977
No.9 was apparently raced by John Mortensen in the US in 1978
No.14 F2 1978, raced by Eje Elgh in Atlantic spec in NZ 1979
No.15 Bill Brack in Canadian Atlantic 1978
No.16 one of the 1978 works cars, raced by Teo Fabi in New Zealand Atlantic series 1979
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Old 27 Jan 2004, 08:29 (Ref:851995)   #3
Chris Townsend
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March 782s are a bit of a mare because very few numbers are given in period in journals. Most that are are given in 79 or 80 and you can just about trace back to 78. Apart from that one is forced to rely on F1R who may well be at their most unreliable at this point!
There is also the 782/78B issue as Dave points out. This is more clear cut in the US than Japan where several 782s were probably converted into Atlantic/Pacific formula as time went by.
Of Dave's list I think 9 and 15 are 78Bs rather than 782s.

Here's my list with sources

782-1 Debuts with Giacomelli at 1977 Donington F2. Either this car or chassis 5 to David Franklin for hillclimbing, 1979

2: Toleman Group: Rad Dougall [F1R]; 1979: Paul Smith for UK Atlantic [ex Dougall and number given by AS] Retained to 1981

3 Not known

4: Not known

5: Patrick Neve, possibly the Bob Salisbury car - see below

6: Alan Docking for Alex Ribiero. 1979 Phil Dowsett [AS & MN 'ex Ribiero'. 1982: Dave Hoban [noted by Jeremy Jackson]

7: Works: Giacomelli 1978 car, this or 1 to Franklin, the other probably to Japan

8: Works: Surer

9: Works: Winkelhock

10: Salisbury: Bernard de Dryvre

11: Pierre Maublanc

12: Toleman: Rad Dougall Retained 1979 for Dougall and Tiff Needell

13: Project 4: Ingo Hoffmann

14: Project 4: Eddie Cheever. 1979: Works: Eje Elgh in NZ then returned to UK and sold to Charlie Kirkby for UK Atlantic

15: Not known

16: F1R says Maublanc. Dave McKinney has in NZ for Teo Fabi then sold to Ken Smith to at least 1982. Dave's report says this car was used by Zunino in 78 and I believe him, not F1R

17: Euroracing: Piercarlo Ghinzani

18: Astra: Piero Necchi. 1979: San Remo for Ariel Bakst, replacing car damaged at Thruxton, Pascuale Barberio at Misano

19: San Remo: Alberto Colombo. Retained to 1981

20: Benelli: Roberto Marazzi. 1979 San Remo: Badly damaged by Bakst at Thruxton, perhaps resurrected for Pedersoli in 1980

21: Not known

22: Not known

23: Brian Henton. Retained 1979 and run as rent a car for Hayje at Zandvoort and Ribiero at Donington

24: Gerd Bichteler. 1979: Klaus Waltz; 1980: Walter Raus for Jo Gartner

25: Not known

26: Stephen South; 1979: Adrian Russell

PM: 'Prototype modified?' Jack Kallay for Geoff Lees

In 1978 not known

Lehmann: Peter Scharmann/Helmut Bross [April]
Salisbury: James King/Gianfranco Brancatelli [April]
Gerard Pillon [perhaps a Maublanc car] [June]
Vicic [Japan]: Mark Surer [July] and probably Warwick [November]
Racing Team Combat: Hisayoshi Mitsuhashi [July]
Lista: Marcus Hotz [Sept. probably 2h, maybe the Scharmann car]
Fumiyasu Satoh [Sept, prob 2h]
Vicic: Giacomelli [Nov] 1979 Le Mans Co: Gabbiani, JAP GP 'a 782 used last season by Giacomelli'
Speed Star [Japan] Didier Pironi [Nov, prob 2h]

Chris
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Old 27 Jan 2004, 13:15 (Ref:852302)   #4
Dan Rear
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ISTR that the Easter 78 Autosport had a full list of F2 chassis at Thruxton that year. Think MAWP did the report, he was always a real anorak for tub nos. I don't have that issue, maybe someone else on here does ?? I think the 78Bs were numbered in different order to the 782s, that was the usual March way I believe, rather than being numbered all in 1 series.

Purely from memory, didn't Tolemans have 2 in 79, after they'd sold -2 to Paul Smith? Perhaps one was the Henton car -23. Did Lees have a Kallay car in 78/79, doesn't ring a bell with me unless it was in Macao/Far East/Japan.

I'm sure theres much more detail to come here!!
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Old 27 Jan 2004, 15:51 (Ref:852501)   #5
Chris Townsend
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Dan

Lees used the 782 towards the end of the season mainly in the Aurora series. I vaguely remember him taking pole with it at Mallory in front of all the F1 cars [or was that South?]. Think he did a couple of Euro rounds with it

Did AS put the numbers in for Thruxton? Damn, missed that issue

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Old 27 Jan 2004, 16:28 (Ref:852551)   #6
Dan Rear
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Chris, I'm pretty sure the car Lees had from mid-78 was a B42, not a 782. Did well in a couple of Euro races, scoring points I think. At Thruxton that year, in Aurora not F2, he put the B42 on pole, was leading until quite close to the end as I recall, until he stopped.

At the previous Thrux Aurora he was in a 781, the car that Allison later had with RAM, and the one rumoured to be entering the Belgian GP with de Dryver that year, but didn't.

I think South did put his 782 on pole at the Brands August Aurora that year, before he sold it to Adrian Russell. Whatever happened to Russell I wonder, he was a consistent, if not quick, Libre/Aurora racer from end-77 to end 79, then just disappeared.

Slightly O/T, my mate Kim put his B35D on the front row at Mallory that year in the May Aurora race.
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Old 27 Jan 2004, 17:51 (Ref:852667)   #7
David McKinney
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March 782 numbers from Autosport 30/3/78:
1 - T-car (Hoffman and Cheever)
2 - Dougall
5 - Neve
6 - Ribeiro
7 - Giacomelli
8 - Surer
9 - Winkelhock
10 - de Dryver
11 - Maublanc
13 - Hoffmann
14 - Cheever
15 - Zunino
16 - Jarier
17 - Ghinzani
18 - Necchi
19 - Colombo
20 - Marazzi
23 - Henton
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Old 27 Jan 2004, 19:11 (Ref:852766)   #8
Jeremy Jackson
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Lees was indeed in a B42 at Thruxton in the September 78 Aurora round, but he qualified 5th. He did, however, lead into the first corner, and contnued to lead until he tripped over Dennis Leech's March, and finished 5th
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Old 28 Jan 2004, 08:24 (Ref:853323)   #9
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Originally posted by Chris Townsend
14: Project 4: Eddie Cheever. 1979: Works: Eje Elgh in NZ then returned to UK and sold to Charlie Kirkby for UK Atlantic
Small point - Elgh's car in NZ wasn't a works entry. It was tended by Dick Bennetts of Project 4, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't a P4 entry either. My relevant programmes are buried somewhere and I've lent my other primary source out...
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Old 28 Jan 2004, 17:42 (Ref:854037)   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by David McKinney
I've lent my other primary source out...
Formula? Should I be looking?
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Old 28 Jan 2004, 18:02 (Ref:854082)   #11
Chris Townsend
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One's familiarity with Geoff Lees's brief aquaintance with 782-PM probably depends on where you were at the Donington F2 meet and if you attended practice.

If you blinked you missed it. This was his only outing with the car [Chevron B42 elsewhere] and he ended up in the gravel at Redgate with assorted others on lap 1 of the first heat. Those further round the circuit were deprived of his company.

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Old 28 Jan 2004, 20:59 (Ref:854329)   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by allenbrown
Formula? Should I be looking?
No, New Zealand publications
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Old 29 Jan 2004, 02:03 (Ref:854574)   #13
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Elgh's car was run by Dick Bennetts. It would have been January 1979, and I have a feeling Dick was actually forming West Surrey Racing or had already run a F3 season under his own banner at that time.
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Old 29 Jan 2004, 02:18 (Ref:854584)   #14
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I assume this is the car you are referring to. March 782-14-BDD
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Last edited by Teretonga; 29 Jan 2004 at 02:20.
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Old 29 Jan 2004, 13:21 (Ref:855168)   #15
Dan Rear
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Teretonga, I think Dick B formed West Surrey Racing in early 81, in 79 and 80 he ran Project 4s F3 team, winning the UK series both years, with Serra and Stefan Jo. WSR came the next year, with Jonathan Palmer. So in early 79 he was still a Dennis employee, hence I assume the use of the ex-Cheever Project 4 782.

If this came back to UK after for Charlie Kirby, i wonder where it went after. Perhaps its one of the 'mystery' 782/79Bs in Britain over the next few years, eg Andy Barton, Roger Orgee, Tony Westwood, Malcolm Hull, Martin Mansell, Duncan Bain, Stewart Phillips, David Newall, etc.
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