Bathurst: Points or no points?

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by racer69

You would still have the problem (or my personal problem anyway), with a two-driver event counting for a single-driver series.

Not exactly a new problem. Le Mans counted for the world sportscar championship for decades, Spa 24 Hour in the '87 WTCC...

But for me - two driver races in a single driver series, its just a natural extension of teamwork. The championship driver just puts a relief driver in the car as well.

But - to paraphrase a writer I know - thats just me.

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by jasonhill9884

Eastern Creek 500

Im sure the proposed Wellington street circuit would love a 500km event, as would Eastern creek, and the GC...

Anyone like my idea ??

Yeah, all except for the Eastern Creek bit. Make it the Phillip Island 6 Hour...

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by mixxer

I agree with Falcadore, but I would like to see the 1000 back as a stand alone event and a seperate sprint round for Bathurst included in the championship.

They tried that one year. I don't think that it was a raging success. Besides, as Larry Perkins commented at the time, having two Bathurst races is like having 2 Christmases. Firstly, there's just ONE Xmas Day, and to have two diminishes the uniqueness of the event that is held there.

The idea though, of a resurrected AEC has some merit, I s'pose. Each race doesn't have to occur at the conclusion of the V8 series. Rather, it can be held in between V8 rounds. Of course, it may end up like the Amaroo Park Amscar series, where the major players didn't go, rather conserving their resources for the ATCC. As a further example, if the Indy Round was not a part of the championship, as it was originally, you'd see teams fielding spare cars, or opting not to attend, in order to save their best for the actual championship.

In commercial reality, for Bathurst to be a stand alone event, really, it'd have to be the last race of the year. The championship's over. The teams can then concentrate on an all out effort, a make or break effort, at the one big race of the year. Perhaps the Sandown 500 could be the final champ. event. Or not.

Having read this thread, though, I've seen as many different views on this topic as there have been posters. Perhaps someone can post a poll. Should Bathurst be a stand alone event, Yes or No?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Not exactly a new problem. Le Mans counted for the world sportscar championship for decades, Spa 24 Hour in the '87 WTCC...
.

The difference here though is that in the World Sportscar Championship and World Touring Car Championship (and the pre and pro-ceeding European Touring Car Championship), all the other events in addition to the big races all required a minimum of two drivers, no single driver races counted for the title, meaning relying on a co-driver was a constant element of the series, not a wildcard thrown in twice a year.

mjt57 - Doesn't the agreement that teams sign with AVESCO when they purchase a franchise decreed that they must attend every AVESCO race meeting if you are in the main series, Though the the maximum amount of races held a year is 14 as per the agreement.

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by racer69

mjt57 - Doesn't the agreement that teams sign with AVESCO when they purchase a franchise decreed that they must attend every AVESCO race meeting if you are in the main series, Though the the maximum amount of races held a year is 14 as per the agreement.

That's true. However, no agreement is written in stone. Like your ISP's or bank account "agreement", it can be changed at any time, should commercial requirements dictate it.

As for a summer series, how would it work, seeing as Oz is in holiday mode during that time? Isn't one of the reasons that we race over winter, is that it lines up with what's happening in the Northern Hemisphere. I suppose if our winters were as harsh as up north, then we'd probably have a summer season.

In fact, I'm surprised that TC hasn't decreed that Dec thru' Feb is now officially winter......

[Mattracer]

If Bathurst has to be for points, then maybe a etter points system might free things up a bit and loosen the shackles that the championship contenders by that stage of the season are forced to race with. With a wider gaps between placings or indeed no points at all, just a stand alone event, then more of a spectacle may happen. Honestly though, Bathurst is never really a dull race. Perhaps bring back the AEC and make that consist of the Clipsal 500, Sandown 500 and Bathurst and have a separate poibntscore for that.

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by Mattracer

If Bathurst has to be for points, then maybe a etter points system might free things up a bit and loosen the shackles that the championship contenders by that stage of the season are forced to race with. With a wider gaps between placings or indeed no points at all, just a stand alone event, then more of a spectacle may happen. Honestly though, Bathurst is never really a dull race. Perhaps bring back the AEC and make that consist of the Clipsal 500, Sandown 500 and Bathurst and have a separate poibntscore for that.

If the Clipsal 500 was to be a part of an endurance series, then it would need to be a single race. As it stands, a driver could DNF in one race, win or place highly in the other, and still score points for the round. Whereas his competitor at say, Sandown, could DNF and there's a whole round's worth of points gone.

And that's the problem with the current points structure. DNF at say, Eastern Creek, you lose a few points. DNF at Bathurst and you lose heaps.

The point scoring system has to be fair and equitable. Right now, whether you have an AEC or the current "championship", it's not. Use the MotoGP or world superbike model for each race, whether it be race one at Simmons Plains, or Bathurst. A win's a win, and a DNF is a DNF. That way competitors neither gain or suffer from an unfair advantage/disadvantage.

Plus it also makes it easier for me to keep score......

[Falcadore]

Adelaide however could not remain a single driver race if the twin race format was condensed.

No, there was far too much pain to go through to get the Adelaide format right in the first place, leave it as it is.

[The Hrt Kid]

A summer series could make a lot of sense. Begin the series in October with Bathurst being rnd 1. Race throughout the summer and finish in say june. Run Hidden Valley and warmer rounds later in the season. Keep Indy where it is, Phillip Island where it is, Sandown towards the end of the season. Plenty more chance of coverage by the media. Cricket and Motorsport are neck and neck, with golf not even getting close, no footy to battle against. Teams have there holidays from June. Bathurst being round 1 gives everyone even playing ground.

[Mark Webber]

I agree plus a summer series could bring back night events . may I even dare say saturday night events

If the main series ends before bathurst and then Round 1 is Bathurst it could work
and have night events leaves Sunday time slot TV free
and would benift from the cooler night air

just a thought

[Crowestar]

No make Round 1 the Sandown 500 as the track can't be used for a fair while afterwards because it is used for the horse quarantine area for the horses coming over for the Melbourne Cup. Plus they do need a warmup for Bathurst

[racer69]

It was talked about at one stage, 1998 or 1999, to move the Sandown 500 to the start of the year, to put an enduro either side of the Shell Series. Instead of moving the Sandown 500 though, they just axed it.

[mjt57]

Me, being a traditional kinda guy, like the idea of the ATCC consisting of sprint rounds, with each race, not round, of equal points value. Then, once that's over with, get on with the enduros with each race as a stand alone event. Or, if you wish, resurrect the AEC. Sandown, Bathurst, PI 6hr...

Anyway, do we really need near year round racing? Right now, we have nothing at all, save some club action, and we all appear to be surviving.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by racer69

It was talked about at one stage, 1998 or 1999, to move the Sandown 500 to the start of the year, to put an enduro either side of the Shell Series. Instead of moving the Sandown 500 though, they just axed it.

It was never axed, it was either (depending on view point) a) relocated or b) run for a different category.

[racer69]

To AVESCO it was axed though. I've never heard AVESCO or Channel 10 make any reference during the past two Sandown 500s about the 2001 and 2002 Sandown 500s.

Either way though there was still a gap of 500km races between the 1998 race and the 2001 race.

[Falcadore]

It's rare to hear AVESCO or Channel Ten refer to any Bathurst 1000 or championship result prior to 1993. And only occasionally prior to 1996.

Look at the new V8Supercar annual by way of example.

[pete55]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

It's rare to hear AVESCO or Channel Ten refer to any Bathurst 1000 or championship result prior to 1993. And only occasionally prior to 1996.

Look at the new V8Supercar annual by way of example.

Yeah, isn't that a fine example of a magazine? NOT. One look at the cover was enough and upon opening it didn't get any better.

[racer69]

Agreed both.

The best one though is on V8Supercar website, Does Tony know about this??

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/resourc...nish.asp?ind=M

[00 XR8]

I can’t believe it took 23 posts before the points system was discussed in this thread!

You don’t have to take Bathurst out of the Championship to make people fight 100% till the flag. All you have to do is make the points system so that you have to try and win races to win the Championship. If we had a decent points system Ambrose wouldn’t be able to afford to cruise home in fourth place, he would have to try and move up and get significantly more points.

It is bloody commonsense but AVESCO can’t see it. Having the Championship decided at the final round is all well and good but if it means that the first 12 rounds are just a cruise and try not to have a DNF affair then people won’t watch it on TV anymore and they certainly won’t pay money to come and see it live. And if you know anything about mathematics the current points system doesn’t make for much of an exciting final round anyway…………………

Back to the Bathurst subject, having it in the Championship helps to build the profile of the whole category within the mainstream demographic which is a great thing. If the points system was fixed then I can’t see a down-side in the current arrangement for Bathurst either.

Anyway, it is good to have Bathurst as part of the Championship because that way every time we (Ford) loose the race I can pretend that I am happy about Ambrose marching towards another Championship and try to ignore the pain of loosing the biggest race of the year!

I am not convinced either way whether we should have Bathurst as a final round or not though. My first reaction is that it should be because the rounds after Bathurst always seem to be an anti-climax to the year. But having Bathurst as the last round has the real potential to hide the success of the Championship victor even more. Skaife rapped up the Championship at Bathurst in 2002 but few people outside of the hard-core fans really noticed. And having Bathurst as the final round kind of means we would have to end the year in October which doesn’t sound too good to me……………………………..

[Falcadore]

Having the final round not held at Bathurst increases the number of 'banner' or more highly promotable rounds.