Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: FlagMarshal.com MarshalsGuide.com Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Racing Talk > Marshals Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 May 2005, 09:09 (Ref:1291846)   #1
garybirch
Racer
 
garybirch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Taunton, Somerset UK
Posts: 445
garybirch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bizarre Towing Incident with safety implications

Castle Combe, 2nd May, Post F (Old Paddock Out), After a MG Midget qualifying session:

Driver stopped in esses during session and needed towing back afterwards. Didn't want them to use the tow hook for some reason so they used the roll bar above driver (right side of car). Lorry driving off line on left side of track was churning out lots of dirty exhaust smoke so driver decided to pull out to the right, out of the way of the smoke. Line goes slack, lorry speeds up, line snaps back taught, pulling the car from the top right side.....rolling the car over!
I was lying down behind the post and heard this screech of wheels and almighty crash to find the lorry stopped and the midget on it's rollbars beside it. Driver was fine but this leaves us with some serious safety implications!

1. Cars should be towed by tow hooks. But if the driver wants different we need to find out why, and looking at some welded on tow hooks perhaps they need to be checked better by the scrutineers.
2. Cars need to stay as straight behind towing vehicles as possible.
3. Most importantly, drivers must strap themselves in and put on their helmets when being towed back. If this driver hadn't done that, he'd probably be in hospital right now!

That's the first meeting I've done where the biggest incident wasn't during a race!
garybirch is offline  
__________________
Gary Birch
The Marshalling Vicar
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 09:29 (Ref:1291853)   #2
scrutineer
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location:
Manchester
Posts: 254
scrutineer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
1. Cars should be towed by tow hooks. But if the driver wants different we need to find out why
Your right, did anyone ask? If not why not?

Quote:
and looking at some welded on tow hooks perhaps they need to be checked better by the scrutineers.
Scrutineer bashing my favourite thing there is only so hard that we can pull it by hand in the bay, and some it is hard to reach (ill wait for the comments on that one from the tractor people).

Quote:
3. Most importantly, drivers must strap themselves in and put on their helmets when being towed back.
Isnt that a requirement by the MSA? And as such should be checked before the car moves away.
scrutineer is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 09:30 (Ref:1291854)   #3
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,829
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I recently went into a gravel trap at brands hatch and had to be towed back to the pits. The marshals insisted that I strapped in - the first time that I had experienced this request. I don't have a problem with this but unfortunately, I can't strap myself into a single seater and the Marshals couldn't or wouldn't do it. Eventually I managed to get one shoulder strap done up but it really was for presentation purposes only. Perhaps there is a training issue here?
andy97 is offline  
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 09:45 (Ref:1291860)   #4
Bodysnatcher
La Grande Théière
Veteran
 
Bodysnatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Marshall Islands
5 minutes from the kentagon
Posts: 2,421
Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!
Yep, Brands Hatch had a similar incident last year, with (i believe) an adverse reaction from the compewtitor whose car was pulled over.
The immediate response was that all drivers being towed back must have their helmet on (something we always did for single seaters) and be belted in.
As for Andy 97 not being strapped in by the marshals - well it probably was a case of not knowing how to do up your belts. (so that's the could'nt covered)
Training will help, and drivers can provide that each time we have to belt them back up, so please, just give us time.
Or...personally I like to know somebody a bit better before getting familiar in the area wher the belts do up. And..some of you do get a bit sweaty as well.....
(that's the would'nt covered)
Bodysnatcher is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 09:51 (Ref:1291864)   #5
Andrew Palmer
Veteran
 
Andrew Palmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
England
Peterborough
Posts: 546
Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A similar incident has happened at Snetterton with a FPA, when the driver decided that the tow was in fact a bump start and then tried to drive off with tow rope still attached. Result one upside down FPA.

Now all drivers being tow must wear helmets and be strapped in and told that it is a tow, to follow the tow vehicle and not to overtake it. If the driver will does not follow these insturction the car become a full lift and the driver must visits the Clerks before getting the car back.

As for the towing eye many are scured enough for towing on a flat tramac surface in a straight line, but if you move from these conditions they have been know to fail. I think the Blue Book states a towing point front and rear but makes no requirement for strength. I wait the be corrected on this.

Now what would have happened if this car was a single seater?
Andrew Palmer is offline  
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak." Anon
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 09:59 (Ref:1291866)   #6
scrutineer
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location:
Manchester
Posts: 254
scrutineer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Andrew you are right there is no requirement for the strength, it is based on towing the car on a flat surface.
A point with single seaters. The tow point is normally the roll hope, and if pulled on tarmac there is no problem. Pull it through gravel and it takes a nose dive and can cause a lot of damage to the undertray and the nose/wing.
scrutineer is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 11:54 (Ref:1291957)   #7
scorch
Racer
 
scorch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
England
Posts: 349
scorch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A Couple of points,
Never pull a single seater by the roll hoop unless on flat tarmac, they do roll over pretty easy.
Why did the line go slack, and what kind of speed was he doing to pull it over, was the recovery/driver doing something stupid.
if the recovery was beltching smoke then maybe it could be dropping other nasty things on the circuit, and some serviceing would be in order.
scorch is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 12:17 (Ref:1291977)   #8
ss_collins
Veteran
 
ss_collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Nigeria
Mooresville, NC
Posts: 6,704
ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
having been towed home in my vee (my helmet was in my lap, belts undone) I really find it hard to see how it could be done wrong on tarmac. One thing is the line will go slack every time the tow truck brakes or lifts, plus it willgo of centre when the tow truck turns a corner.
ss_collins is offline  
__________________
Chase the horizon
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 12:18 (Ref:1291978)   #9
scrutineer
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location:
Manchester
Posts: 254
scrutineer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Scorch has mentioned a few good points, maybee we should be looking at the standard of recovery. There are a number of recovery trucks that I wouldnt want recovering my car (dont mention any names as there could be legal problems). And then there are ones who do a profesional job.
Is there much training for recovery?
scrutineer is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 15:15 (Ref:1292087)   #10
garybirch
Racer
 
garybirch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Taunton, Somerset UK
Posts: 445
garybirch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Responding to further points.
* I don't know why it went slack, but the line does occassionally if towing vehicle has braked and car hasn't.
* Car was obviously quite a way out from behind the truck for it to have hapened on tarmac.
* I don't think the recovery driver was doing anything abnormal, but he knew the car was out to the side so perhaps should have slowed down more than usual.
* I think training is a good idea for marshalls on straps etc.
* Perhaps we should have strength tests for tow hooks?
* I think the scrutineers do a great job and in no way do I wish to scrut bash!
* I like the FPA regs and it being a full lift if driver doesn't co-operate.
garybirch is offline  
__________________
Gary Birch
The Marshalling Vicar
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 15:19 (Ref:1292090)   #11
ss_collins
Veteran
 
ss_collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Nigeria
Mooresville, NC
Posts: 6,704
ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
how would you test tow hooks?
ss_collins is offline  
__________________
Chase the horizon
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 15:30 (Ref:1292099)   #12
Ian Sowman
Veteran
 
Ian Sowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Birmingham
Posts: 5,968
Ian Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Keep pulling them until they come off?
Ian Sowman is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 15:59 (Ref:1292122)   #13
scrutineer
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location:
Manchester
Posts: 254
scrutineer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Keep pulling them until they come off?
Like that idea but you cant always reach them

Quote:
Never pull a single seater by the roll hoop unless on flat tarmac, they do roll over pretty easy.
Thats ok at Silverstone were all snatch lift up the cars, however at other tracks were tractors are used they just pull them, which causes more damage than they had in the accident.

Maybe they should just full lift all cars, but this would add a lot of time to the meetings and mean even later finishes or less races.
scrutineer is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 16:05 (Ref:1292127)   #14
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,137
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
One thing that seems to be missed here is a bit of training for the recovery drivers.
A lot of them seem to think they are dragging cars out of ditches at the side of the M25 sometimes and can do more damage than the initial reason for the tow or lift.
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 17:53 (Ref:1292191)   #15
chezza
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
England
Shrewton, Wiltshire
Posts: 6,441
chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss_collins
how would you test tow hooks?
Attach a strop and give it a bloody good yank.

The towing eye should be able to at least take the weight of the D-ring/carabena (sp) and certainly the weight of the car...it is no good when the towing eye comes away in you hand as your trying to hook it up!!

Well said Scorch!!

The driver should have been paying attention not to let the line go slack...when the truck brakes you brake, and also the recovery vehicle should have been paying more attention so that the car was not jolted so much when it started moving.
chezza is offline  
__________________
"Miss Stroplash" - The Hooker - BGP 2009
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HRT/HSV Implications?? dynamik gal Australasian Touring Cars. 40 26 Sep 2005 01:14
The implications of a Cosworth sale jjspierx ChampCar World Series 12 2 Nov 2004 14:48
The implications of the Grand-am Rules Geva racing North American Racing 2 6 Dec 2001 16:00
What do you use for towing? Ray Bell Road Car Forum 38 8 Jul 2001 16:00
Sinister Implications Of Team Orders Valve Bounce Formula One 17 6 Jun 2001 12:53


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.