Ferrari given $10,000 fine.

[Down F0rce]

Ferrari have been fined $10,000 for the Massa/Sutil incident.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20694.html

If you excuse me, I think I need to find a bomb shelter.

[jedrinck]

Good Lord, will they have to cancel the rest of the season for lack of funds now? Mabe they will have to sell Kimi...

[Ralf's Girl]

The FIA wheel of fortune spins again, and we have...a small change fine. Well they'll never dare to do that again, will they?

[Smile]

Another Joke by the FIA and Race Stewards.

Since when do they refer a descion like this to after the race? Is that so the if the outcome isnt favourable Ferrari can spend a million dollars, loby their friends and appeal the outcome to something that should be a judge of fact matter and dealt with during the race.

Who else here thinks if this was a McLaren a drive through would have been immediately issued?

It must be good to be Ferrari.

[JamesH]

Weird - $50mil or whatever for having possession of some documents, $10k for possibly causing an accident that could have injured goodness knows how many in the pitlane (had they collided and it had all gone pear shaped). I know nothing happened, but (and I agree with James Allen on this one), that's not the point. The point was it was very dangerous.

Other half just came in and said - "Its no good fining them - because money is no object to them. They should be hit where it hurts and deduct points or places"

Crikey.

[Duff_44]

I don't think anyone should have been penalized for that, whether they drive for Ferrari, McLaren, or anyone else.

Originally Posted by Smile

Who else here thinks if this was a McLaren a drive through would have been immediately issued?

Not a chance in hell.

[tux]

1 rule for 1 and 1 rule for another springs to mind. In the GP2 race a team was given a drive through penalty for releasing their driver into the path of an on coming car.

[Super Hans]

I agree with the penalty, in isolation. A finanical penalty for a relatively trivial error such as this is always preferable to a drive-through, a stop-go or the loathsome 5/10 place grid penalty. However, in light of some of the penalties dished out this season, it seems a ludicrously small in comparison.

[fourWheelDrift]

I am flabbergasted, this was a piece of dangerous negligence which could easily have resulted in ruining the race by blocking the (narrow) pit lane with two wrecked cars or worse injured people in and around the pit lane. I was astonished there was no drive through but I fully expected a ten place grid penalty. So we now know that any team can risk launching their car into the side of one flying past at pit lane speed and expect only a 10k fine, unless of course they are less lucky than Ferrari and don't get away with it. Utter madness, from Spa on the F1 pitlane will be a more dangerous place.

[rpolinski]

Will Phillip Morris even need to open the petty cash tin? Or will the CEO just have a poke behind the seat cushion.

As for the claim of no advantage being made, if that's the case why didn't they just wait for Sutil to pass. That's right he would have lost time.

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by tux

1 rule for 1 and 1 rule for another springs to mind. In the GP2 race a team was given a drive through penalty for releasing their driver into the path of an on coming car.

Two different series, two different sets of rules, two different sets of officials (and possibly different precedent)

Is there an F1 precedent for this type of incident in the pits? I don't recall ever seeing it happen before...

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Weird - $50mil or whatever for having possession of some documents, $10k for possibly causing an accident that could have injured goodness knows how many in the pitlane (had they collided and it had all gone pear shaped). I know nothing happened, but (and I agree with James Allen on this one), that's not the point. The point was it was very dangerous.

Other half just came in and said - "Its no good fining them - because money is no object to them. They should be hit where it hurts and deduct points or places"

Crikey.

Oh purlease!

Massa backed off, there was no contact, and since Sutil was what, not even on the same calendar as far as race position there was no competitive advantage gained.

Further, the Stewards had already established that fines would be meted out for infractions (see Alonso and I think Webber) earlier in the weekend.

If you are so worried about danger and causing accidents, then I suggest you begin your hunger strike in front of the FIA offices asap to have Coulthard's super license lifted (along with Nakajima's) as David was literally the "Pinball Wizard" out there today as he was happily driving into people at speeds much greater than that one would find on the pit lane.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

Is there an F1 precedent for this type of incident in the pits? I don't recall ever seeing it happen before...

There may not be a direct precedent but speeding in the pitlane is punished because it increases the risk of a pit lane accident although being a touch over speed is far less dangerous than a car charging out of it's pit as another is going past. This ought to be treated at least as severely and we all know that means an immediate penalty on the track.

The fact that Massa was a lap ahead of Sutil is irrelevant as is the fact that he is fighting for the championship.

[RaiseYourFist]

It will be interesting if they add this "incident" to the official highlights for todays race

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

If you are so worried about danger and causing accidents, then I suggest you begin your hunger strike in front of the FIA offices asap to have Coulthard's super license lifted (along with Nakajima's) as David was literally the "Pinball Wizard" out there today as he was happily driving into people at speeds much greater than that one would find on the pit lane.

The pit lane may be part of the race track but the fact is that we go to great lengths to keep people out of the firing line on the track, we can't do that in the pit lane which is why the pit lane has special rules. Rules which were made a mockery of by the decision not to penalise either the team or the driver today. I say they were not penalised as if I was fined 5p I would not regard that as a penalty and this is probably a greater portion of my budget than the 10k is of Ferraris.

[Hendrik]

Keke Rosberg said, he doesn't even understand why there's this big trouble now. Nico and Nick had a similar situation this year and Kubica and Räikkönen drove side by side all the way to the red light in Canada, just before Lewissenna crashed into Kimi.

I really don't see the big "incident" there. It was a mistake by Ferrari, maybe. But teams tend to make some and this one was not the biggest deal of all.

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

There may not be a direct precedent...

That answers my question

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by tux

1 rule for 1 and 1 rule for another springs to mind. In the GP2 race a team was given a drive through penalty for releasing their driver into the path of an on coming car.

Except he actually got in front of that car, and that car had to decelerate to avoid the collision.

In this case, Massa decelerated and fell behind to avoid the collision (though his views on why it should be that Sutil gave way are somewhat flawed).

I initially thought 'penalty, penalty' - but believe the incident was somewhat different to usual. The rulebook says if he was released in front of another car, he should be penalised - he wasn't, he was released alongside.

I think the main review needs to be made as to where the responsibility actually lies with releasing the car, especially considering Kimi's incident - and maybe this traffic light system should be dropped - as would either of these mistakes have occured if there was a lollipop man?

I agree with no penalty for Massa. All the conspiracy theorists may now continue with their ramblings.

[Icebaby]

As Massa thought he had done no wrong and Sutil was to blame do we now take it Ferrari will appeal this decision if they really believe as they have Indicated they are blameless?... some how I doubt it.

What gets me was Massa blaming Sutil for being there (a backmarker) ...ehh hello any thing inside there?

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by tux

1 rule for 1 and 1 rule for another springs to mind. In the GP2 race a team was given a drive through penalty for releasing their driver into the path of an on coming car.

So this team can now appeal as the rules are not transparant, you can't hand a fine to one team and a drive through effecting position to another, what message are you sending ?

[Charlies]

There is a F1 precedent; according to Google, Ralf Schumacher was penalised 25 seconds post race at Imola in 2005 for being released into the path of Nick Heidfeld. My sketchy recollection is that this required Heidfeld to take evasive action to avoid a collision in a similar manner to Chandhok in GP2.

Personally I think the fine should be larger and the reprimand include provision for suspended punitive action should it reoccur. By only fining them I think they've set a precedent for cars to race each other in pitlane that could be dangerous.

However, I don't want to see the championship decided by stewards. Massa deserved the win and the title chase is better for it.

As for the Ferrari system, it's operated by members of the crew, but is anyone responsible for checking the pitlane to see that it's clear?

[craigd]

I'm glad Massa wasn't punished, as it wasn't the driver's fault; when you see green you go!!! I think the team should have lost Massa's constructors points though, that would kick em in the balls harder than 10k - an equivalent punishment to someone punishing us by stealing a single hair off our head! Noooooo!!! As people rightly point out, a precedent of a small fine will not make teams think twice.

As for Massa's Sutil remarks. I got the feeling a large part of that was political whispering from the team before he was interviewed. Like, 'We're being investigated, don't be a knob and say we may have slipped up and blow any defensive argument we can concoct. Whack some blame on Sutil, there's a good chap!' That was my take on it. You could tell from Massa's face that he knew he was taking S***E!!!

p.s. what a lame race. The track seemed good but the current cars need sorting out.

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

So this team can now appeal as the rules are not transparant, you can't hand a fine to one team and a drive through effecting position to another, what message are you sending ?

Anything that happened in GP2 is irrelevant to the F1 race and vice-versa.

They run under different rules with different officials.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Charlies

There is a F1 precedent; according to Google, Ralf Schumacher was penalised 25 seconds post race at Imola in 2005 for being released into the path of Nick Heidfeld. My sketchy recollection is that this required Heidfeld to take evasive action to avoid a collision in a similar manner to Chandhok in GP2.

Thanks for finding the Ralf Schumacher incident, I felt sure that it must have happened before. I think in this debate we should not lose sight of the fact that the rule that was invoked is not about who ends up in front of who or any other advantage. It says the competitor (ie the team) must only release the car when it is safe to do so. I suggest that Ferrari actually broke this rule twice in this race not once and a real penalty that would act as a deterrent should apply, the idea of a fine and a suspended penalty might make a lot of sense as it would help focus attention on how to avoid a repetition.

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

Anything that happened in GP2 is irrelevant to the F1 race and vice-versa.

They run under different rules with different officials.

But both are regulated by the FIA ?