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Old 20 Jan 2010, 18:52 (Ref:2616486)   #1
jcgti6scot
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Grp2 Zakspeed Escort

Hi all, i am new to this forum and i'm very glad i have now found it
I am not sure if this is the right section to post this in so sorry if it is incorrect.
I am currently trying to build a grp2 zakspeed escort and am looking for any technical information or pictures that are available to help me do this.
I want to build the car as close to original as possible and whilst having found many pictures of the cars racing etc i really need to find out more about how they made the cars to begin with i.e suspension, axle, dashboard, was the car tubbed on the inner wings as well as outer, did they use leaf springs or just turrets, did they have watts linkage etc etc
I know they used the bdg engine and i believe a zf 5 speed box but as for the above questions i am at a loss. Also what tyre size was used, did they have single nut hubs or four nut, the list is endless lol
we have a left hand drive shell which has just returned from the dippers and looks surprisingly good and i know the zakspeeds were originally left hand drive but at the moment that is where the similarities end. If anyone can shed some light on these questions or have any other usefull information regarding the gr2 escorts i would be very thankfull.
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 20:22 (Ref:2616538)   #2
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Hi,
please find attached some pictures. Note the magnesium front-legs and rear suspension setup with ARB and own linkage design. Maybe you also have a go at the AVO Owners forum.
Kind regards, Stephan





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Old 20 Jan 2010, 20:27 (Ref:2616540)   #3
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Thanks Stephan very usefull pic and info i'll check avo too i forgot to mention it is a mk2 escort i have, oops my apologies. But maybe these or other parts are the same for late mk1's and the mk2's??
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 20:46 (Ref:2616554)   #4
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Hi, It may be that as it is history you require, the Motorsport History section is more suited, but the moderators will sort that out if they deem it necessary

There is a very interesting thread about the Gp5 MK2 Zakspeed cars in the above mentioned section which demonstrates how difficult is it to get info about them. Frank de Jong's website dedicated to Touring Cars gives some info, but reading up on period Appendix J to know what was allowed is a start if you havn't already done so. Zakspeed started with Broadspeed built cars so there is similarity until they took charge and developed them further. There was a blue Mk1 Escort for sale advertised as the Italian Finotto Zakspeed car, but as this was used in competition for many years after by subsequent owners the specification may be far from the original.

Zak only used a Gp2 Mk2 in big box-arched form for one season alongside the Mk1 (same mechanical spec) then the rules changed and they had small arches, 1840cc wet sump engines, no rear links, narrower wheels, 4 speed Ford g/box etc. Eventually dry sumps were re-allowed after many engine failures but the gp2 cars were eventually developed into spaceframe Gp5 over a period.

Hope that makes sense as I assumed you meant Mk1 and have just re-written!
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Old 20 Jan 2010, 21:25 (Ref:2616572)   #5
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Hi, here are some pictures from a Grp2 MK2 after the reg change in 1976/77. As Mike said and as you can see from underneath: 4-speed, no bespoke rear linkages, just leaf springs, two piece propshaft (due to revs?). Can't see if wet or dry sump in picture. But as Mike said, they had to run wet sumps after the reg change. And there is a diff oil cooler with pump I believe.

@ Mike: I really must see your great car live somewhere this year. Best regards!

Cheers, Stephan



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Old 20 Jan 2010, 21:30 (Ref:2616575)   #6
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Yes sorry i should have stated the mk2 part earlier
i will have a look at the appendix j.
Am i right i believing that this is a grp2 zakspeed?
There seems to be so many different versions but what you say about the smaller arches etc makes sense i'm just not sure as there seem to be two versions of the bubble arched ones, then the bigger flat arched gr5 ones.
the stats for the castrol schemed car seems to be


Bore and stroke 90,0 x 77,6 Size1975 cc Cams 2OHC Valves per cylinder 4 Power275 HP/9000 Kugelfischer fuel injection TransmissionZF 5-speed Weight850Brakes f/rdisc / discWheels f/rx 15 / x 15Tyres Dunlop

Where as the denim schemed one seems to be
Bore and stroke 87,4 x 77,6Size 1840 cc Cams2 OHCValves per cilinder 4 Power258 HP/9000 Lucas fuel injection TransmissionFord 4-speed Weight865Brakes f/rdisc / discWheels f/r9 x 16 / 10 x 16Tyres Goodyear

So are they both grp2 just different era's or??

I assume the later is wet sumped and the castrol one is dry sumped?


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Old 20 Jan 2010, 21:38 (Ref:2616582)   #7
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This is great information thanks guys And great if not unusual underbody pic:P
If it is a wet sumped, standard non-linked axle etc then at least the build parts will be slightly easier to find.
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Old 21 Jan 2010, 06:12 (Ref:2616758)   #8
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So are they both grp2 just different era's?
In a nutshell, yes. In a bid to make Gp2 more production based the rules were changed in 1976. This is why you need to read Appendix J as the rules changed 3 times over the life of Mk1 & Mk2 Zaks.

The Mk2 shell started out like the Castrol schemed car, then adopted the round (and to my eyes good looking) simple extensions for 1976 with the smaller wet sump engine etc. If you havn't got 'Ford in Touring Car Racing' by Graham Robson it is worth reading. There is a great pic of the earlier car in black Castrol colour scheme

The later Gp5 cars took the box arches to the extreme and eventually were space framed with that huge wing....... (See the newly restored NZ car in other thread I mentioned before!)

Alec Poole and John Handley raced a UK built red 1840cc Gp2 car in some ETCC races which used the normal Ford rally arches, so even that is an option! I always assumed that wheels were 15" dia for all variants (after Ford homologated them for '74), but could easily be wrong on that.

I have got a few under car pics of a later type Mk2 Zak which will upload when sorted. The earlier car I would guess is same as the 1975 Mk1 underneath so no idea! What I do know from experience is in order to get that width of rear wheel under arches the dampers would have to be mounted inboard of chassis rails. All 'do-able' but have to be done from scratch.

In the liberal Gp2 rules period some unusual suspension ideas were tried- Ford even building one Escort with transverse Morris Minor torsion bar rear end! (That car still exists) Ralph Broad also tried some 'inventive' front suspension on a Capri which is pictured in the above mentioned book.

Stephan- great pics and how nice of the driver to allow a shot of the underneath I'll let you know where we are racing- maybe should do a race in Germany sometime!
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Old 21 Jan 2010, 09:43 (Ref:2616812)   #9
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Thanks Mike thats good food for thought, i too think the smaller round extensioned car looks great and this will probably be the style i choose to go for with this build.
Going with what you say about the rear wheels inner tubbing is required which is fine i just wanted to make sure before i started changing the chassis and then finding out i shouldn't have
I'll get a copy of Graham Robsons book as i have not seen that before.
Will be going to spa again this year plus also a trip to germany so think i might take a swing by Zakspeed for a drool fest at their showroom
Cheers
James
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Old 21 Jan 2010, 13:02 (Ref:2616915)   #10
Mike Bell
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So it's James and a 306 owner, by the sound of it! Welcome.

Fitting 15" tubs doesn't alter chassis- not sure that it is legal to do that anyway!

The following pics are of a later small arched car. They were taken in the last few years but the suspension is supposed to be period.

Front end uses clever tension struts which probably were accepted because they were 'part of' the roll bar or something! Interesting feature is the tube running from wheel arch forward along inner wing, maybe shell strengthening?



Rear end as Stephan's pic. Car has lost diff cooler, but cover still has unions. Remember the races were up to 6hrs- don't think cooler needed unless you find a race of that duration! Guess exhaust is later addition.



The rear spring has an interesting leaf arrangement. Have never worked out why.



And lastly they still used centrelock wheels. Unless you have a lot of money to spend maybe not!

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Old 21 Jan 2010, 20:01 (Ref:2617140)   #11
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Thanks for the great photo's mike, good detail to work from.
Yes i did have a 306 but sadly it is now gone, was a fabulous car though.

I recall seeing this kind of leaf arrangment before on another race car but can't remember what car or to what purpose they served.

Do we know if it is a baby atlas that was used or the longer one?

The front suspension looks good seem's it would work well. I believe the wheels are still available to purchase but as you say they are not cheap but i think Image do a set that is almost identical for a lower price. Do you happen to know the tyre size that was used?
Also any idea's as to how zakspeed made the original bubble arches i.e fiberglass or aluminium? And where the best place is to get the bodykit from now. i know oldfordautos do one but am unaware if this is the best one to use. Probably won't be doing to many 6+ hr races but have always wanted to do the 6hr classic race at spa and there doesn't seem to be too much involved in fitting the oil cooler parts for the diff so will probably fit one as it is what was there originally and my main aim is to make the car as realistically close to the original as possible. I feel that although done by zakspeed alot of the cars where all slightly different, so will probably have to choose one particular grp2 car and try to recreate it. Most probably the car that stephan has posted pictures of with the castrol and goodyear livery on it. Does anyone have any colour pictures of this car? It looks fairly similar to the one below but doubt if it is the same car. But the colour scheme may be the same.
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Old 21 Jan 2010, 20:56 (Ref:2617164)   #12
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looking at Frank de Jongs website i think this is the same car from 1976, driven by Siegfried Müller Jr and Martino Finotto
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Old 21 Jan 2010, 21:26 (Ref:2617173)   #13
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Do we know if it is a baby atlas that was used or the longer one?

The front suspension looks good seem's it would work well. I believe the wheels are still available to purchase but as you say they are not cheap but i think Image do a set that is almost identical for a lower price. Do you happen to know the tyre size that was used?

Also any idea's as to how zakspeed made the original bubble arches i.e fiberglass or aluminium? And where the best place is to get the bodykit from now. i know oldfordautos do one but am unaware if this is the best one to use.

I feel that although done by zakspeed alot of the cars where all slightly different, so will probably have to choose one particular grp2 car and try to recreate it. Most probably the car that stephan has posted pictures of with the castrol and goodyear livery on it. Does anyone have any colour pictures of this car? It looks fairly similar to the one below but doubt if it is the same car. But the colour scheme may be the same.
Would guess axle straight off a Capri in those days, so full width. Maybe possible to calculate from photo near enough.

It's not the wheels that I was thinking about re cost, but the special hubs you would need to make for them to mount on!

Max wheel width rules allowed '76 on was 11.5" for 2000cc. According to Frank de Jongs website Zak used 9 x 15 front and 10 x 15 rear in that year. Suggest tyre size will depend on what is made now and whether you are allowed slicks or treaded for your races.

The oldfordautos kit is the only one I have seen. Looks OK in pics! You could look on forum like rallyesportescorts.com for gallery pics of posters cars and see if there are any on there. Looking at shape of arches and spoiler would guess Zak used fibreglass.

Colour schemes seemed to change from race to race. The black Castrol scheme is most recognised, but if you look on racingsportscars.com touring car section and go through '76 & '77 races there are a couple of Mampe schemes and another one at least!

Good luck and look forward to seeing the finished article! If I had a mint Mk2 shell would be tempted to do exactly what you are intending.
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Old 5 Feb 2010, 13:06 (Ref:2627236)   #14
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I have one of the oldfordautos zakspeed arch kit and it is very nice quality not like some of the nasty wavey fiberglass parts you sometimes see and it wasnt very expensive either.
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Old 5 Feb 2010, 13:23 (Ref:2627247)   #15
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I have one of the oldfordautos zakspeed arch kit and it is very nice quality not like some of the nasty wavey fiberglass parts you sometimes see and it wasnt very expensive either.
Hi Mart, they look good in pictures I have seen. After this thread one of the Ford forums had some pics of a newly painted shell with them fitted- looked the dogs wotsits........
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