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Old 2 Jun 2022, 16:59 (Ref:4112561)   #1
coppice
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Entry Levels at Historic Race Meetings

I am at HSCC Cadwell this weekend and the entry is ok, but hardly oversubscribed - a shame as it is one of my favourite meetings , and at my favourite circuit of all. Lots of reasons why things are thin - but one not mentioned so far is that so any circuits and racing clubs are fishing in the same pond . There's more than enough cars to go round but not if so many clubs are essentially targeting the same demographic of cars and drivers . And nearly every circuit hypes its home grown 'Historic Festival ' , as if nomenclature alone will attract Silverstone Classic or Goodwood Revival/MM scale entries and crowds .
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Old 2 Jun 2022, 17:25 (Ref:4112563)   #2
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I noted that even my preferred organiser, CSCC, has some relatively thin grids at Brands this weekend. Of course their Spa weekend is coming up so people may be loath to risk their cars before that simply to get dizzy at Brands Indy ( ) but the number of different organisers trying to latch on to CSCC's success over recent years may well have an effect.
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Old 3 Jun 2022, 06:14 (Ref:4112617)   #3
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Indeed - I was involved with CSCC for a couple of years and still do the odd thing with them . It seems to me that they set the template for many rival organisers and the combination of 40minute pit stop races and no championships was a winning one. I'm sorry to hear of thinner grids- I remember a couple of CSCC events at Brands and Silverstone with literally hundreds of entrants in overflowing paddocks . Fabulous sight.
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Old 3 Jun 2022, 11:50 (Ref:4112657)   #4
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We are somewhat off topic but another consideration may be age. A lot of drivers are now retiring from work and pensions, although good, don't often cover motorsport.
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Old 3 Jun 2022, 17:19 (Ref:4112701)   #5
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That's a very good point, but why are they not being replaced by younger drivers? Is it that the cars of the 80s don't fire up the imagination like those of the 60s, which are now out of the reach of the "average" driver?



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Old 3 Jun 2022, 17:23 (Ref:4112702)   #6
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I need to qualify that last statement. When I was selling racewear my biggest customer base was late 40-early 50 somethings driving the cars of their youth. "I watched MGB/Cortina/Alfa back in the day and now I can afford to race one."

Now 40/50 somethings would have been watching Renault Clio, BMW County Championship etc which doesn't exactly stir the blood.

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Old 3 Jun 2022, 18:03 (Ref:4112705)   #7
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Low grids

Interestingly Historic Grand Prix Cars Association (HGPCA) grids are over subscribed this year. This is obviously high end, grid entry fees are about as high as it gets for amateur racing.
Most people are suffering financially, this is no doubt going to have a big impact. Sadly it will probably only get worse. The answer from the circuits & race organizers will be to do nothing but keep on increasing race entry fees.
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Old 3 Jun 2022, 18:07 (Ref:4112706)   #8
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Indeed - I was involved with CSCC for a couple of years and still do the odd thing with them . It seems to me that they set the template for many rival organisers and the combination of 40minute pit stop races and no championships was a winning one. I'm sorry to hear of thinner grids- I remember a couple of CSCC events at Brands and Silverstone with literally hundreds of entrants in overflowing paddocks . Fabulous sight.
I don’t know what the entry list is like for the “classics” series tomorrow but I didn’t think that the grids at Brands today for CSCC were that thin. Thin for CSCC, perhaps, but I think there are several clubs that would like 23 Mag 7s racing and 20 Special Saloons & Modsports etc etc.

I am not sure that racing on the Friday of the “Jubilee weekend” was that great an idea, either. I know several people who were firmly told that they were expected to attend family/ friends/ village/ street functions this weekend (for some strange reason) and that took precedent!!! Her Majesty has a lot to answer for!
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Old 3 Jun 2022, 18:59 (Ref:4112710)   #9
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Now 40/50 somethings would have been watching Renault Clio, BMW County Championship etc which doesn't exactly stir the blood
As a child of the 1980s (and with very embryonic plans to sprint a car from my childhood), I do wonder if part of the issue might be that most cars that a 40 something might aspire to race still compete in 'modern' racing. There are plenty of Clios, early 1990s BMWs competing but, as yet, few places to compete on a historic meeting.

A random observation is that many of the cars that competed at Combe in the inaugural Griffiths Formula race in the sixties were about 10 to 15 years old.
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Old 3 Jun 2022, 19:19 (Ref:4112713)   #10
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Probably put down to expense as things are definitely getting worse for the "normal racers". Motor racing has always been expensive and the further you go up the ladder it doesn't get any better especially with increases in fuel (not only for road and racing but gas and electricity) that makes "everything else" more expensive. I was lucky in my motor racing and had a lot of people that spent a lot of money to help me, as I couldn't have possibly carried on for years.
The diehards in the majority of clubbie motor racing in the last 50 odd years that have made up the fields have never been "mega rich" and are now disappearing as they get older/retiring and a lot now have less disposable income.
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Old 3 Jun 2022, 21:44 (Ref:4112740)   #11
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Perhaps we should hand the whole lot over to MSV and let Dr.Jonathon sort it out!

Woah! No thanks. I think he (MSVR) is part of the problem, not the solution.
Look at what has happened with the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting this year. The long standing date has been changed and the grids sold out to, presumably, the highest bidder. No room for the normal popular grid mix this year.
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Old 4 Jun 2022, 07:30 (Ref:4112787)   #12
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Woah! No thanks. I think he (MSVR) is part of the problem, not the solution.
Look at what has happened with the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting this year. The long standing date has been changed and the grids sold out to, presumably, the highest bidder. No room for the normal popular grid mix this year.
To be fair, the date changed emanated from Silverstone moving the Classic date to the bank holiday weekend. It makes no sense to try and run the two meetings on the same weekend.

In terms of the meeting's content, I think it had gone a little stale. To my mind it was a normal HSCC clubby dressed up as a 'mini-festival'. The new mix of races is very interesting and could potentially have a meeting that deserves the Gold Cup name.

It's also worth noting that HSCC have a normal club meeting the week after the Gold Cup so none of their categories miss racing there.
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Old 4 Jun 2022, 08:13 (Ref:4112791)   #13
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Probably put down to expense as things are definitely getting worse for the "normal racers". Motor racing has always been expensive and the further you go up the ladder it doesn't get any better especially with increases in fuel (not only for road and racing but gas and electricity) that makes "everything else" more expensive. I was lucky in my motor racing and had a lot of people that spent a lot of money to help me, as I couldn't have possibly carried on for years.
The diehards in the majority of clubbie motor racing in the last 50 odd years that have made up the fields have never been "mega rich" and are now disappearing as they get older/retiring and a lot now have less disposable income.
I agree with all the points made but the overall cost of just attending a Hscc weekend meeting for me these days is £1000( entry fee , fuel to get there and accommodation) that’s before I spend anything on the car .
With tyres now costing £1200 a set , seat belts £200+ etc etc even prior to inflation effects it means for the average club racer whether employed or retired who form a good proportion of the grid are at risk of being priced out of the sport

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Old 4 Jun 2022, 08:49 (Ref:4112799)   #14
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I agree with all the points made but the overall cost of just attending a Hscc weekend meeting for me these days is £1000( entry fee , fuel to get there and accommodation) that’s before I spend anything on the car .
With tyres now costing £1200 a set , seat belts £200+ etc etc even prior to inflation effects it means for the average club racer whether employed or retired who form a good proportion of the grid are at risk of being priced out of the sport
When I was doing the TOCA support races back in the 90s the cost was between 1&2k for the weekends racing and I was doing it on a shoestring budget compared to several others in the series.
I think a lot of people downplay on how much they actually spend on motorsport, but I suppose money is there to be spent on what we like as long as it doesn't impact on their family life, unfortunately it does and I personally know of a couple of cases where they have lost their house and partner/wife through it.
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Old 4 Jun 2022, 08:51 (Ref:4112800)   #15
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It's also worth noting that HSCC have a normal club meeting the week after the Gold Cup so none of their categories miss racing there.

Yes, but the new date is now just a clubbie rather than the elevated event the members deserve.
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