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Old 4 Jun 2022, 09:00 (Ref:4112801)   #16
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I'm on my phone at the moment but when I get to my lappy I'll move these posts to a new thread, we can then concentrate on the Thruxton discussion here.
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Old 4 Jun 2022, 09:21 (Ref:4112803)   #17
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Yes, but the new date is now just a clubbie rather than the elevated event the members deserve.
What yould you have them do? Silverstone decided to move their Classic to the August bank holiday weekend without giving a damn about the knock-on effects, one of which is that it was no longer viable to have the Gold Cup that weekend. I struggle to see how that is MSV or HSCC's fault.
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Old 4 Jun 2022, 09:54 (Ref:4112808)   #18
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Yes, but the new date is now just a clubbie rather than the elevated event the members deserve.
I understand that, but the question I'd ask is why HSCC members need an 'elevated' event?

For many years, they have been good quality, fun, club events that have been tremendously good to attend. Also, for the last couple of years HSCC's Snetterton event has been branded the Jim Russell Trophy. Whilst I think it's great that tribute is paid to him, 'elevating' the event hasn't resulted in notably bigger grids.

I'd also suggest that the likes of CTCRC, HRDC and VSCC seem to exist satisfactorily without a calendar dominated by marquee events.
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Old 4 Jun 2022, 10:39 (Ref:4112815)   #19
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...........I'd also suggest that the likes of CTCRC, HRDC and VSCC seem to exist satisfactorily without a calendar dominated by marquee events.
Just picking up on this point. The CTCRC has a number of double headers which create better value for money for entrants. They have also added super tourers to their range of classes which are also eligible to race with HSCC. Some of their drivers are eligible for the Gwerry Marshall Trophy at Goodwood. Likewise the HRDC is organised by Julius Thurgood who helps Goodwood select entries for the Revival and MM, so this year the revival will no doubt feature some HRDC drivers in various races, not least the MGB Celebration.

So they do have a marginally tenuous link to "Headline Festival Events".

We should also look at Masters who run their own "Festivals" and I believe due to timing, seem to garner good grids.
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Old 4 Jun 2022, 10:50 (Ref:4112818)   #20
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The reason the Silverstone Classic was moved back to August Bank Holiday was because the British Moto GP was brought forward from last years August Bank Holiday date to the first weekend in August this year. Apparently Silverstone couldn't manage all three of their major events being held in the space of five weeks, British GP being on July 3rd, hence the Silverstone Classic being moved back and the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting losing it's Bank Holiday slot.
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Old 6 Jun 2022, 08:34 (Ref:4113154)   #21
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We've raced with most series over the years, they all have their attractions. Everyone's had a 'festival' and offered longer races or double headers.
There is no shortage of choice, if anything too much.

Bottom line for most must be cost and time. .I keep looking and don't know how I ever justified doing it. I went out pre season and blew the cobwebs off, did nearly 2 hours round Goodwood on the day, packed up and went home. I really don't have any great urge to go racing for some reason, just seems like an ever increasing load of hassle and expense to do the same thing again and again.

I've always preferred a long weekend away and a trip into Europe, which currently is even more hassle/expense on top and I just can't be bothered.

In addition to that I've been spoilt in the past, I've taken my car as far as I can without turning it into something it's not. . . . and it gets less competitive by the year. . I guess I'm a bit of an oddity in having a car I just like rather than just buying an affordable or competitive car regardless. . . but I think I'm fairly typical of an historic racer in recent years ? it's a hobby.
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Old 6 Jun 2022, 08:57 (Ref:4113159)   #22
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I guess I'm a bit of an oddity in having a car I just like rather than just buying an affordable or competitive car regardless. . . but I think I'm fairly typical of an historic racer in recent years ? it's a hobby.

I think you are very typical of what historic racers were 25 years ago, Joe. I think I was the same. I have no formal engineering or mechanical training but picked up bits and pieces here and there by being involved with the building and preparation of all the cars I've raced. The engineering/mechanical skills were provided by my brother with whom I raced since the mid 1960s. And I think that was very typical of the average club racer. If you wanted to race and didn't have the technical knowhow you had family or a mate to help out. The arrive and drive amateur racer paid for that privelege but at a higher level than mere club racing. F3, Formula Junior and GT racing spring to mind.
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Old 6 Jun 2022, 13:27 (Ref:4113212)   #23
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the proportion of self prepared owner/drivers has dropped significantly, the standard pf preparation has gone up (not necessarily linked) and the level of professionalism has gone up.

certain elements of 'professionalism' are less desirable than others, thats anojhter story, but it does put some people off.

All of the above have arguably made historics less accessible, especially when you consider most normal people have less in their pockets to spare at the end of the month than they did 15-20 years ago.

I don't think anyone wants to see tatty old bangers, but just as the next generation of guys think they may have a go my guess is there will be a smaller pool who can justify it. Certainly the only way I could afford it was by DIY, and that was a big part of the appeal. The younger generations seem to be less practically skilled if for no other reason than things aren't designed/built to be repaired any more.
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Old 6 Jun 2022, 14:03 (Ref:4113220)   #24
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the proportion of self prepared owner/drivers has dropped significantly, the standard pf preparation has gone up (not necessarily linked) and the level of professionalism has gone up.

certain elements of 'professionalism' are less desirable than others, thats anojhter story, but it does put some people off.

All of the above have arguably made historics less accessible, especially when you consider most normal people have less in their pockets to spare at the end of the month than they did 15-20 years ago.

I don't think anyone wants to see tatty old bangers, but just as the next generation of guys think they may have a go my guess is there will be a smaller pool who can justify it. Certainly the only way I could afford it was by DIY, and that was a big part of the appeal. The younger generations seem to be less practically skilled if for no other reason than things aren't designed/built to be repaired any more.
Completely agree with this Zeff!

Appreciate that the Peter Auto events are at the “top end” of racing events so is likely to attract wealthier folk, but looking at the 60s series, there used to be a number of cars that were raced, prepared and supported by the owner/driver plus family..…I think we are now the last of these.

Most of the cars are now supported by massive teams with seemingly endless resources and have a professional/semi professional as the 2nd driver.

The whole set up is now much more professional with the main focus being on trying to win, hence why cobras, Daytona coupe (copies), e types and lotus 26r are now the predominant cars on the grid… as a consequence amateur enthusiasts who race historic cars just for the hell of it with no chance ever of winning (why else would we try to make a 356 go stupidly fast?!) are being squeezed out.

Does make it a hell of a lot more satisfying when you get a good result though!!
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Old 6 Jun 2022, 19:16 (Ref:4113302)   #25
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Agree with you both. With a good E Type you're now competing in a sort of B class, no Cobra no laurels. May be a 26 R is the good choice for an amateur.
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Old 6 Jun 2022, 22:17 (Ref:4113327)   #26
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As a commentator at Brands recently for the historics queried where have all the E Types gone?

Good number of them are still raced although not very often and tend to stick to the Jaguar Challenge where they are obviously competitive.
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Old 7 Jun 2022, 05:57 (Ref:4113361)   #27
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Just hope that the LMC live streaming will work (at last!) and can watch the Challenge in the Mulsanne straight. May be I know one or two french drivers entering this support grid…
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Old 7 Jun 2022, 07:42 (Ref:4113369)   #28
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Completely agree with this Zeff!

Appreciate that the Peter Auto events are at the “top end” of racing events so is likely to attract wealthier folk, but looking at the 60s series, there used to be a number of cars that were raced, prepared and supported by the owner/driver plus family..…I think we are now the last of these.



The whole set up is now much more professional with the main focus being on trying to win, hence why cobras, Daytona coupe (copies), e types and lotus 26r are now the predominant cars on the grid… as a consequence amateur enthusiasts who race historic cars just for the hell of it with no chance ever of winning (why else would we try to make a 356 go stupidly fast?!) are being squeezed out.

Does make it a hell of a lot more satisfying when you get a good result though!!
Amen to that. I had a few years being competitive in TC 63 against the Jags etc, but I was murdering the car mechanically to do it, needed a major service after every race. . . .When I learnt the latest TC engined Cortinas have a gearbox every race and an engine lasts 4 hours my heart sank. . BoT that has to be a deterrant to the majority.

PA meeting at Spa in May/June is great, night racing, snow, what more could you ask for
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Old 7 Jun 2022, 08:55 (Ref:4113381)   #29
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We've discussed the professionalisation of historics previously and I agree, it has made the whole thing a great spectacle but at the expense of the club racer. It occurs to me that the possible alternative as an amateur is to abandon App K and return to club determined regs which may allow lower costs.

That would then preclude events such as the Spa 6hrs, Goodwood (special anyway), Silverstone Classic etc. but would probably benefit clubs such as the MGCC, CTCRC and the like who would gain a number of drivers.

Zef mentioned the additional hassle of traveling to europe and I recall John R saying similar in the Le Mans Classic thread. Agreed, if you are transporting a number of non registered vehicles (or road registered but not yours) then carnets etc. need to be procured. But as an individual when transporting your own vehicle there is no additional effort required. That said, next year we will have to apply for a Schengen Visa before entering Europe.
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Old 7 Jun 2022, 09:01 (Ref:4113382)   #30
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That said, next year we will have to apply for a Schengen Visa before entering Europe.
Aren't UK citizens going to be part of ETIAS, and so still not requiring a visa?
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