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Old 23 Apr 2019, 06:59 (Ref:3899104)   #251
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A thousand comments on the Facebook post already, and none of them good...
Well they won't be will they? Always a highly emotive subject, parity adjustments. It's good that there is such passion in the fanbase but that does tend to magnify some responses and people generally seem to just luuuurve a conspiracy theory.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 07:06 (Ref:3899106)   #252
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If this change were truly inspired by the intervention of one team, the return of liner springs would have appeared too..
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 07:07 (Ref:3899107)   #253
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
people generally seem to just luuuurve a conspiracy theory.
I don't think they love conspiracy theories.

I do think they hate incompetence.


Also, since the Mustang was essentially illegal for the first lot of races, what point deductions are coming? A car can't just start being legal multiple races into a season. Point penalties for all Mustangs is the bare minimum

Last edited by Compromised; 23 Apr 2019 at 07:12.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 07:28 (Ref:3899108)   #254
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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
I don't think they love conspiracy theories.

I do think they hate incompetence.


Also, since the Mustang was essentially illegal for the first lot of races, what point deductions are coming? A car can't just start being legal multiple races into a season. Point penalties for all Mustangs is the bare minimum
Name 1 way that it was illegal
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 07:40 (Ref:3899109)   #255
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Name 1 way that it was illegal
Don't feed the troll.

For anybody who wants precedence, that which became Supercars has done this before, and F1 issues rule clarifications all the time, so calm your farm.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 07:49 (Ref:3899111)   #256
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I don't think they love conspiracy theories.

Also, since the Mustang was essentially illegal for the first lot of races, what point deductions are coming? A car can't just start being legal multiple races into a season. Point penalties for all Mustangs is the bare minimum
No, they love conspiracies - like the whole "Roland runs supercars" type stuff.

Mustang wasn't illegal in any races AFAIK but there's been a parity adjustment made, similar to those made on a number of occasions in the past and at Barbagallo the Mustangs will need to be a different configuration to be legal.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 08:00 (Ref:3899114)   #257
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
John Bowe has posted about the "squeaky wheel" getting the oil, but how short his memory must be, he and DJR were the whiningest team for the longest time while HRT were so strong.

At one point I called him John "mid corner understeer" Bowe because you know what was coming every time someone stuck a mic in his face.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 08:26 (Ref:3899117)   #258
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They found advantages outside the testing parameters. Smart? Perhaps. Within the spirit of the rules? Not really.

Hopefully after this, parity has been restored, and the catagory has learned a few things for the next time aero testing is required.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 08:47 (Ref:3899119)   #259
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I would have thought a run in each car by an independent, non-aligned pilot at at least 3 different circuits would have helped the process too.

The whinging is deafening on social media...
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 08:55 (Ref:3899120)   #260
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The team don’t seem to fussed..

DJRTP PR 1 Ford whingers 0
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 08:56 (Ref:3899121)   #261
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I'd take the opinions of such experts, over the whinging on social media.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 09:22 (Ref:3899127)   #262
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I have no problem with the direction that the parity of the cars is going to be done now and into the future. To have Little and Burgess in charge is a positive leap forward over their predecessors. It gives the impression that the job everybody's been asking for is finally being done. We should be happy. But the way Supercars continually contradicts themselves and the half ass way they handle things like this make them look like amateurs. They wonder why teams/fans/sponsors are getting upset.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 09:26 (Ref:3899129)   #263
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The team don’t seem to fussed..

DJRTP PR 1 Ford whingers 0
If the squeaky wheel is a Holden or Nissan team it makes the Ford whingers comment from you look redundant. Face it, you haven't stopped whining about the Mustang from day one.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 09:37 (Ref:3899131)   #264
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If the squeaky wheel is a Holden or Nissan team it makes the Ford whingers comment from you look redundant. Face it, you haven't stopped whining about the Mustang from day one.
The issue is technical parity.
If you can make sense of recreating 4 chassis that last year were untuneable, plonking a new body shape on them and immediately running up the front, something doesn’t work somewhere.

Running a 2 door car against a family hatch and a family sedan from a marketing perspective may create poor optics when the family sedan with no sporting pedigree of its own beats a premium priced 2 door sports car.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 10:05 (Ref:3899134)   #265
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All I know is that I have been following touring car racing for 35 years and not once has a Holden had a parity adjustment or been penalised to reduce performance.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 10:07 (Ref:3899136)   #266
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All I know is that I have been following touring car racing for 35 years and not once has a Holden had a parity adjustment or been penalised to reduce performance.
https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...hange/4362883/
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 10:11 (Ref:3899137)   #267
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Pretty much all through the 90s, and again in the early '00s when they went to Project Blueprint.

Then there were the engine COG measures a couple of years back, and then there were chassis COG measures earlier this year. Not to mention the rear bumper tuck saga at Phillip Island last year...

But no, Holden never gets paritised.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 10:25 (Ref:3899140)   #268
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Pretty much all through the 90s, and again in the early '00s when they went to Project Blueprint.

Then there were the engine COG measures a couple of years back, and then there were chassis COG measures earlier this year. Not to mention the rear bumper tuck saga at Phillip Island last year...

But no, Holden never gets paritised.
Fiddling at the edges.

When did Holden be penalised to such a degree it took a race winning car to an also ran?

It has happened to Ford at least three times since 1990 and the noisy crowd won't be satisfied until it happens again.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 10:29 (Ref:3899141)   #269
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They trimmed the wings and undertrays.

Which is what they're doing to the Mustang. We won't know what effect it'll have on it until they hit the track. I think the #17 and #18 will still be at the top of the pile regardless.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 11:14 (Ref:3899147)   #270
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They found advantages outside the testing parameters. Smart? Perhaps. Within the spirit of the rules? Not really.
"Aerodynamics are subject to parity testing against the rival racers, but that testing covers only selected criteria, which means there are significant performance advantages to be made by developing a better aero package.

T8 hired an aerodynamicist from German racing operation HWA and invested heavily in Computational Fluid Dynamics modelling software to develop its package. CFD simulation was required to test the ZB’s aero pack because wind tunnel testing is banned under Supercars rules.

T8 is believed to have invested more than $1 million developing the ZB for Supercars racing,

Based on its small frontal area and huge rear wing with endplate mounting that will catch plenty of grip-generating wind mid-corner, the ZB is expected to be a very competitive Supercar."

https://www.motoring.com.au/motorspo...vealed-110646/
January 2018

Ford Performance have merely used the same interpretation as 888. Yet there were, inexplicably, no aero cuts made to the ZB Commodore during 2018!?

A more reasonable ruling would be to require both Commodore and Mustang to use Altima style rear wing mounts.

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Old 23 Apr 2019, 11:41 (Ref:3899154)   #271
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All I know is that I have been following touring car racing for 35 years and not once has a Holden had a parity adjustment or been penalised to reduce performance.
The VR Commodore had its wings clipped mid-season in 1996, hence why Larry Perkins went back to the VP for Bathurst.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 13:30 (Ref:3899181)   #272
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And again in '98.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 14:30 (Ref:3899185)   #273
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VT in 2000 I guess had its front under tray clipped.

Not sure but I think there were some changes after that too.
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Old 23 Apr 2019, 14:52 (Ref:3899190)   #274
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It is bizarre that only NOW it is made clear that is expressly disallowed to improve upon the aerodynamic performance of VF, FGX and Altima in any circumstances in order to maintain "cornerstone" technical parity.

Surely 888, Holden teams (in converting to ZB, which would be unnecessary if VF had guarantees) and Ford Performance (and Ford teams in converting to Mustang unnecessarily if FGX had guarantees) would not have spent so much money if only this had been made clear earlier?

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T8 is believed to have invested more than $1 million developing the ZB for Supercars racing. Based on its small frontal area and huge rear wing with endplate mounting that will catch plenty of grip-generating wind mid-corner, the ZB is expected to be a very competitive Supercar.

Some Holden teams initially said they would stick with the VF for 2016, but the ZB’s expected aerodynamic advantages have clearly convinced them to make the switch, despite complaints about the cost T8 has been charging for parts.
https://www.motoring.com.au/motorspo...vealed-110646/

Furthermore, if ZB has an aerodynamic advantage over VF Commodore and by extension Altima & FGX Falcon -- an advantage which is expressly not allowed -- why is the ZB not also facing an aero cut?

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Old 23 Apr 2019, 15:36 (Ref:3899204)   #275
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VT in 2000 I guess had its front under tray clipped.

Not sure but I think there were some changes after that too.
The EL got a new rear wing in '98, and then after that they changed the AU's front bumper a couple of times, mid-season in the early '00s. Probably around the same time the Commodore was adjusted.

Have to remember though, that back then the catagory may not have had access to anything like the technology we have now. So there would have been a lot of guesswork and relying on teams to be in agreeance prior to any changes.
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