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Old 27 May 2017, 08:09 (Ref:3736293)   #501
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Monaco does narrow the power gap though?

Plus it is kind of a handling circuit. Seems that the chassis is showing its spurs again. Hopefulky one or both can get into Q2 at least later today.
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Old 27 May 2017, 10:18 (Ref:3736312)   #502
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as seen by Button's pass on LH during FP2. great move and even better given the guy hasent raced all year...dont want to get over hyped but this could be a great weekend for Mclaren and Honda on both sides of the pond!

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Aaand Button has a 15 place grid penalty... thanks to Honda. Fred must be laughing.
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Old 27 May 2017, 10:53 (Ref:3736319)   #503
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Back on topic...

Various rumors (just rumors) that the more significant update from Honda is still a ways off. A few were speculating Monaco, while a number were thinking Canada. If Honda actually knew what the solution was right after spring testing, they probably should have been able to deliver something around now (or even earlier). But if they didn't know, then it would have pushed the delivery date out. I believe it's probably clear at this point that they didn't know right away what the solution was. Reliable info is hard to find.

They do seem to be making incremental improvements without addressing what seems to be the larger core ICE design issues. Reliability seems to be a bit better and they have extracted some performance. I would expect that a good bit of Monaco performance is down to the base chassis and setup and less about raw power? FP2 has Honda in 10th and 11th with them being ~1.3 seconds back from the front. Sauber looks quite bad in last place roughly 3 seconds off the pace. Mercedes might have a narrow performance window and they may be trying to find that sweet spot for Monaco? Right now they are not much faster than McLaren.

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And had Mr Alonso been aboard this weekend, his McLaren may have been a Q3 prospect. But wouldn't have lasted there on race day, unless the doors on the McLaren are really wide...

Moot point with yet another Honda engine failure

Its a shame they cant cycle 5 new engines thru the car this weekend, and wear the grid penalties of being last anyway
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Old 27 May 2017, 13:18 (Ref:3736348)   #504
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Well that was an improvement, both cars in q3 even if one could not actually take part
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Old 31 May 2017, 13:50 (Ref:3737697)   #505
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Norris testing a 2011 McLaren in Portugal. Might they take a punt on promoting him in 2018 if Alonso leaves?
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Old 31 May 2017, 13:56 (Ref:3737700)   #506
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I wonder if the title of this thread is correct? Surely it should read; Can McLaren Complete?
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Old 31 May 2017, 14:34 (Ref:3737713)   #507
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I wonder if the title of this thread is correct? Surely it should read; Can McLaren Complete?
I know you are joking, but to treat it as a serious question, the answer is clearly "yes". There is no avoiding the fact they have reliability and performance issues and are not fighting for race wins. But they are finishing races, getting into Q3 in qualifying and fighting for points. The Monaco retirements for example were not car related. Vandoorne was running in the points when a combo of cold tires and brakes forced a driver error. Button crashed out while making an overly ambitious pass attempt.

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Old 31 May 2017, 15:16 (Ref:3737722)   #508
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are they finishing races though?

3 checkered flags out of 12 (or 10 if you exclude Monaco) i believe i have just read somewhere.

some good Q3 performances for sure and this isnt really a knock on them but its been pretty dire so far this year.
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Old 31 May 2017, 15:26 (Ref:3737728)   #509
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I know you are joking, but to treat it as a serious question, the answer is clearly "yes". There is no avoiding the fact they have reliability and performance issues and are not fighting for race wins. But they are finishing races, getting into Q3 in qualifying and fighting for points. The Monaco retirements for example were not car related. Vandoorne was running in the points when a combo of cold tires and brakes forced a driver error. Button crashed out while making an overly ambitious pass attempt.

Richard
Forced driver errors and overly ambitious pass attempts are all part of it. Bringing the car home is very much part of getting the job done.
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Old 31 May 2017, 15:43 (Ref:3737732)   #510
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Forced driver errors and overly ambitious pass attempts are all part of it. Bringing the car home is very much part of getting the job done.
The driver is part of it for sure. But my opinion is that the spirit of this thread has been about questions around the power unit. While Ron's departure may have been a shock, we don't seem to be seeing systemic problems from the team/engineers/pit crew/drivers and the chassis seems to be decent.

But to open it up to the entire package... they are finishing races. Just not a lot of them.

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are they finishing races though?

3 checkered flags out of 12 (or 10 if you exclude Monaco) i believe i have just read somewhere.

some good Q3 performances for sure and this isnt really a knock on them but its been pretty dire so far this year.
And I expect it to remain dire for awhile if not the vast majority of the season. As fans, I suspect we can only sit and wait for an eventual update from Honda and then hope that brings both performance and reliability. Still no word as to when that might be.

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Old 31 May 2017, 15:51 (Ref:3737739)   #511
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given where they are on the points table, taking out Saubers could also count as a positive result/race finishes.
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Old 31 May 2017, 16:23 (Ref:3737748)   #512
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given where they are on the points table, taking out Saubers could also count as a positive result/race finishes.
Haha. I am sure Button was quite frustrated with Wehrlein given the unsafe pit release by Sauber which only resulted in a five second penalty on Wehrlein (and him likely finishing last regardless of what happened) but yet Button was stuck behind him. Button felt that penalty every bit as much as Wehrlein did.

I fully expect that by the end of season McLaren will outscore Sauber. I will be shocked if Sauber scores much more than they have now while McLaren will have some sort of rebound via improvements from Honda. It will not take much to overall Sauber (such a low bar! ) Plus with Sauber using Honda power and McLaren transmissions next year... Maybe McLaren should go easy on Sauber!

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Old 31 May 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3737786)   #513
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I fully expect that by the end of season McLaren will outscore Sauber. I will be shocked if Sauber scores much more than they have now while McLaren will have some sort of rebound via improvements from Honda. It will not take much to overall Sauber (such a low bar! )
The problem for McLaren is that they'll be racking up the grid penalties for using too many engine components so they'll always be starting further back and having to fight their way forwards (and we've seen how well that's been going).
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Old 31 May 2017, 20:03 (Ref:3737808)   #514
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The problem for McLaren is that they'll be racking up the grid penalties for using too many engine components so they'll always be starting further back and having to fight their way forwards (and we've seen how well that's been going).
This depends upon the success of future updates from Honda. They are burning through their allocation (or have already) and will incur penalties in the future, but if reliability and performance improves, they shouldn't be incurring penalties for every race. So good qualifying position and race results could be in the cards. Again... dependent upon updates that both improve performance and increase reliability.

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Old 31 May 2017, 20:27 (Ref:3737814)   #515
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but if reliability and performance improves, they shouldn't be incurring penalties for every race. So good qualifying position and race results could be in the cards.
That's a good point - if they're smart when and where they take the penalties then they can maximise their chances at the circuits that suit them best. We know that the chassis is pretty good so if they plan their penalties they can have 'penalty free' weekends at the less power dependent circuits.

As you say - this assumes reliability on the upgraded parts though....
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Old 1 Jun 2017, 07:08 (Ref:3737875)   #516
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I'm glad Norris is getting a test, a talented driver, who F1 can't afford not to give a chance
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Old 2 Jun 2017, 16:52 (Ref:3738168)   #517
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Honda "might" provide an updated power unit (with focus on ICE) in Canada. This same story, with essentially identical quotes, has shown up on two of the Motorsports Network sites...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...ade-for-canada

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...-tight-913408/

Reading between the lines, it sounds like they have improvements that are being validated to see if they provide increased performance and are also reliable.

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Old 2 Jun 2017, 17:12 (Ref:3738173)   #518
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What's to lose? Might as well throw them at the car.
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Old 2 Jun 2017, 17:31 (Ref:3738176)   #519
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What's to lose? Might as well throw them at the car.
IMHO, it's actually an odd article. Or at least the responses from Hasegawa are odd. I tried a bit to see if I could find the source of the quotes. I tend to doubt it was an exclusive interview with the Motorsports Network/Autosport.com/Motorsport.com. I wonder if maybe it is a bad translation? Also, if they are going to take a penalty for a new power unit, they probably should at least expect it to be more reliable than what they have today. So that is likely a factor in just tossing it in and seeing what happens. Plus, there will be publicity around a new unit, so if it goes bad, that is worse than not releasing an update and keeping the status quo.

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Old 5 Jun 2017, 18:23 (Ref:3738835)   #520
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I considered the if the upgrade doesn't work that is more bad publicity, but I thought it can't get much worse
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Old 5 Jun 2017, 19:45 (Ref:3738873)   #521
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I considered the if the upgrade doesn't work that is more bad publicity, but I thought it can't get much worse
It can always be worse!

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Old 5 Jun 2017, 20:48 (Ref:3738886)   #522
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Maybe both cars will fail before the start!
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Old 8 Jun 2017, 06:39 (Ref:3739405)   #523
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Zak Brown: "I don’t want to get into what our options are. Our preference is to win the world championship with Honda. But at some point you need to make a decision as to whether that’s achievable. And we have serious concerns.

"Missing upgrades, and upgrades not delivering to the level we were told they were going to, you can only take that so long. And we’re near our limit."

"There’s lots of things that go into the decision and we’re entering that window now of 'which way do you go when you come to the fork in the road'."


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mo...-idUSKBN18Y297
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Old 8 Jun 2017, 09:29 (Ref:3739436)   #524
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
"a fork in the road" says it all.....Honda will be dumped very soon if they dont sort their act out, they appear to be on their very last warning from MrClaren, and this time its public and from Zak Brown directly

But who would McLaren use next year.......they cannot consider Merc or Renault viable options......Ferrari is out of the question.......I can still imagine, that behind the secnes Mclaren will be trying to entice a prebium brand into the sport, then walk into Ilmor to handle the R&D side.......someone like Jagual-Land-Rover (JLR) would fit the bill perfectly.......as financing their own engine deal will end in tears I'm quite sure.

McLaren-Renault or McLaren-Infiniti sounds quite smart......
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Old 8 Jun 2017, 09:35 (Ref:3739438)   #525
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All this talk is interesting and it certainly looks like the writing is on the wall to the ending of the McLaren-Honda partnership.
Surely though, didn't teams need to register their PU supplier for next year by the end of last month (May)? I thought that this was why the Sauber-Honda deal was announced so early?
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