Button Slipping Down the Short List?

[Liz]

Does anyone else think Button Spice did himself no favours today in Monaco? After his chief rival won the Indy 500 (a new track on which he had never raced, in equipment he'd never run before) and took pole for the third time this year at Milwaukee (postponed due to rain), it was said that today it was important for The Boy Who Would Be Eddie Irvine's Stand-In to show he deserves that drive. So what did he do? Dismal qualifying of 14th, screwed up the start of the race by smacking Jos and blocking the grid, and after restarting from the back of the grid, and staying there, he retired without accomplishing anything.

Does anyone else think Sir Frank's decision just got easier?

[Peter Mallett]

Hmmm,

Before we all get too tied up with how great Montoya is (and he is very good) let's not forget that JV is an ex Cart Champ and he has been pretty poor recently. Hiedfield walked all over the F3000 field last year and look at his performance.

AZ was twice Cart Champ and he was appalling last year.

I don't think you can blame Button for the De La Rosa move. De La Rosa should never have tried it there anyway. Berger will know that better than anybody else.

Also mechanical failure can't be blamed on Button either.

Even if we don't like the idea, Button didn't stuff the car into the wall, nor was he to blame for others mistakes.

Montoya on the other hand has been successful in an idosyncratic championsip which is populated with older, and generally less talented drivers.

If Frank really wants to go down that road again (one which Ron Dennis will never take again) then he can but it won't be an easy choice.

[Crash Test]

"JV is an ex Cart Champ and he has been pretty poor recently"
- Ah, would he be driving a BAR? Hmmm...now that is one fast piece of kit...sorry about the sarcasim.
Going by what everyone is saying, Alesi is the best driver ever, and when was the last time he won a race? Heidfeild comes from F3000 and is doing **** , does that mean all F3000 drivers are **** ? No, maybe it has something to do with the cars they are driving this season.

Button is good, so is Montoya. 3 car williams team?

[Peter Mallett]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crash Test:
"JV is an ex Cart Champ and he has been pretty poor recently"
- Ah, would he be driving a BAR? Hmmm...now that is one fast piece of kit...sorry about the sarcasim.
Going by what everyone is saying, Alesi is the best driver ever, and when was the last time he won a race? Heidfeild comes from F3000 and is doing **** , does that mean all F3000 drivers are **** ? No, maybe it has something to do with the cars they are driving this season.

Button is good, so is Montoya. 3 car williams team?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, I think that's what I'm trying to say CT. No matter which way you cut it, Button has done more things right this year (so far) than JV (iffy car with one of the best engines), Heidfeld (Prost - say no more)or any others you name. In terms of experience within his chosen field he has also done relatively better than Montoya who, when one considers his ability and talent, has under achieved in Cart so far this year. Winning the Indy 500 in less powerful cars should really be compared to an F1 driver stepping back to F2 or F3000 for a race. You would expect him to win.

[MichaelC]

Afternoon all -

Let's study briefly how JB has got along this year:

Australia - poor qualifying, drove well through the field, took advantage of others misfotune, then car broke.

Brazil - Outqualifies Ralfie, mediocre start, sensible drive, top-six finish.

San Marino - comfotably worst performance. Never got the idea, out due to mechanical failure.

Silverstone - Complete opposite of previous outing, another points finish. Did have home support and previous track knowledge though.

Barcelona - Reasonable qualifying, running top-10 until mechanical failure

Nurburgring - Armed with more idea of how to rally-drive over the curbs, ran top-10 until electrical failure (caused due to earlier clash with Herbert)

Monaco - Midfield the whole time really. Didn't get much of a race after trying to make up for a poor start.


So overall, he's scored points twice, could have scored in two more, and has yet to go out of a race as a result of something he caused. I think that given he's learning as he goes along, he's doing OK. He could have done better in a couple of the races, but no-one has a great race every time (except TGF).

As for whether or not he stays:
Frank may want Montoya back, but he's still technically contracted to Ganassi. BMW like Jenson a lot, and while it may be Frank's team, it's because of the sponsors that they're there at all. BMW have a considerable investment in Williams, and with a German and a guy they like already in place, I can't see them kicking out Jenson unless he has a complete collapse of form. Montoya will spend another season CART driving round in circles, er I mean ovals, and then join Toyota to race alongside Alan McNish (or Shingy Nakano)

[Devlin]

Just a humble addition of mine: I heard it somewhere that Monaco GP was JB's 51st race in any class. Nuff said.

[Roy2]

Maybe that's what F1 needs, a little more idiosyncracy. The bikinis and the setting were great, but the race was junk, a boring, eventless, waste of time (eventless, unless you count the armco-clouting and chicane-cutting of those "younger and generally more talented" F1 populators.

Montoya is too good for F1 in its current state, and should stay with CART, for his own sake (unless he absolutely must have that $20 million pe year), and for the sake of racing. The world's raciest driver SHOULD be in the world's raciest series.

[EERO]

I think MichaelC is absolutely right (thanks for the summary, MichaelC) The little fella has driven quite well given his rather limited experience, and might I add that he has already scored more points than the dear vaunted Zanardi was able to score.

If Frank is honestly questionining the little fella's role on the team in the future, he's more of a sadist than I thought.

[Minardi fan]

Originally posted by Liz
After his chief rival won the Indy 500 (a new track on which he had never raced,

Liz my dear, how hard can an oval be???

[Minardi fan]

On a more serious note, Button's little nudge at DLR at the Grand Hotel Hairpin was a stupid move which was in no way going to work, unless his car was the size of a Matchbox replica.

Button: YOU SILLY LITTLE BOY.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Minardi fan
On a more serious note, Button's little nudge at DLR at the Grand Hotel Hairpin was a stupid move which was in no way going to work, unless his car was the size of a Matchbox replica.

Button: YOU SILLY LITTLE BOY.

If you look again I think you will find that De La Rosa actually tried to pass on the outside and left button with nowhere to go. Particularly as understeer is the main effect at the hairpin.

[Liz]

How hard can an oval be? Considering My Gil just won his first one, pretty darned hard, I would say.

And how many ovals have you won on yourself, sweetie pie?

[fatbloke]

Could, of course, mean that he's just ****...

[yorkie]

It appears to be about a 50 – 50 split as to opinions for Button’s future. Many people seem to enjoy knocking him and seem to forget that it is his first season in F1. Remember Monaco was button’s 51st race in any class (thanks Delvin).

Motoya has had more experience than Button and is at present racing in a series which is easier physically than F1. OK he won the 500, an oval race. I’m with you Minardi Fan. How hard can it be to win an oval? (oh before you ask Liz I haven’t won any races on an oval)

The next time you compare both drivers remember the differences between them experience wise. No-one would compare TGF and his brother and then hurl the amount criticism at Ralf that has been said about JB.

By the way I am not a particular fan of JB.

[Roy2]

How hard can an oval be?
How fast are you willing to go, how fast and brave is the competition, how hard are the walls?

An oval may be easy to learn, but to think it's easy to win is a failure of imagination.

[Minardi fan]

In my years as a Minardi test driver I can safely say I have never been on a oval track.

(Ok, so the whole thing is lies but one can dream non?)

[Robin Plummer]

You are only as good as your equipment in motor racing.

Some comprassions:

Alex Zanardi - Reynard 98I Honda(great) Wiliiams FW21 supertec (****).

Jacques Villeneuve - Reynard 95I Ford (great, Williams FW19 Renault great. Bar 2000 Honda (****).

Mika Salo - Ferrari F199 (great can lead and finish 2nd), Sauber 2000 (****).

I rest my case. Put Scumacher in a Minardi and Button in a McLaren and surpise, surprise you have an instant champ.