Take a 2019 Tea Break with Delta

[Gerard C]

Sorry, couldn't find a proper answer to your question re year limit to HGV's tires. Only found a nice advice making a parallel with condoms saying "when its used, change it!".
Of course in no way related to your disentry

[Willmaz223]

Another karting session at buckmore.
Track mostly dry but first corner was like an ice rink.
Came 4th with my bro 10th out of 18.
Red flaged for 8 minutes as a driver was ejected after a collision.
Oh and I saw modern racer and Rofgo driver Stuart Hall aswell doing a later race.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Sorry, couldn't find a proper answer to your question re year limit to HGV's tires.

Thanks anyway. It certainly makes sense on coaches, in my opinion. BTW when our first motorway opened coaches ran from London to Birmingham (from memory) at 80mph (130kmh) cruising speed. That must have been fun....

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Thanks anyway. It certainly makes sense on coaches, in my opinion. BTW when our first motorway opened coaches ran from London to Birmingham (from memory) at 80mph (130kmh) cruising speed. That must have been fun....

I think that that was/is a myth, Mike. When the M1 opened, cars were barely able to reach the dizzy speed of 80 mph, let alone a coach.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I think that that was/is a myth, Mike. When the M1 opened, cars were barely able to reach the dizzy speed of 80 mph, let alone a coach.

I agree.

Certainly just before they reduced the speed limits for coaches a decade or so back they could run at around 80mph but I doubt that was the case for a typical charabanc back in the 50s and 60s. I used to drive Watford to Northampton and Watford to Birmingham on the M1 quite a bit in the mid 70s , mostly in an Escort van and that would realistically top out at about 75 unless your were prepared to go deaf or had a string tail wind. Trucks and buses had nothing like the power that appeared in the following decade and in reality not much went past me most days. There again traffic volumes were much lower.

Once the motorway network became more joined up, and especially after the M25 opened the opportunity to really cut journey time and change the coach economics with more power and higher capacity, seemed to change the UK coach specs quite significantly with the European manufacturers appearing in the market.

That didn't last long after a number of accidents led to the introduction of lower speed for PSVs and the natural increase in the traffic levels clogged the routes anyway.

I think the truck and coach restrictions were also considered helpful in terms of slowing all other traffic as the same time without actually introducing a limit that might be unpopular with the masses.

[Gerard C]

Our oldest autoroute must be "Autoroute du Nord" called A1 today. Rich people - mainly mills owners - from Lille use to go "Ã* la capitale" to spend some money and for show off too. Their favorite car was "la reine de l'autoroute", alias Citroën DS. Many started the trip with a 21 injection électronique ending with… a tow truck! The old bloc couldn't stand long term bad treatment. Few cars of this era could make almost 190 kph offering a decent comfort. If you can stand the noise coming from the front windows…

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I think that that was/is a myth, Mike. When the M1 opened, cars were barely able to reach the dizzy speed of 80 mph, let alone a coach.

Not entirely a myth- just not 80mph....

https://www.theguardian.com/theguard...d-barrier-1959

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Our oldest autoroute must be "Autoroute du Nord" called A1 today. Rich people - mainly mills owners - from Lille use to go "Ã* la capitale" to spend some money and for show off too. Their favorite car was "la reine de l'autoroute", alias Citroën DS. Many started the trip with a 21 injection électronique ending with… a tow truck! The old bloc couldn't stand long term bad treatment. Few cars of this era could make almost 190 kph offering a decent comfort. If you can stand the noise coming from the front windows…

Just think what the DS could have been with a better and more up to date engine!

[Peter Mallett]

I had a meeting all day yesterday with a mostly French and Dutch team. The French General Manager took part in that beach motorcycle race a few weeks back. He's got a Porsche and a Austin Healey 100/6. The Construction Manager is a Citroen enthusiast and owns a DS and a Traction Avant. He's trying to find the SM he owned a few years ago. Needless to say we then wasted an hour talking cars and bikes.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I had a meeting all day yesterday with a mostly French and Dutch team. The French General Manager took part in that beach motorcycle race a few weeks back. He's got a Porsche and a Austin Healey 100/6. The Construction Manager is a Citroen enthusiast and owns a DS and a Traction Avant. He's trying to find the SM he owned a few years ago. Needless to say we then wasted an hour talking cars and bikes.

One of those sort of meetings, then, Peter! Did you remember what was supposed to be under discussion?

Midland Red buses- if anyone is interested, this includes the story of developing the special ‘Motorway Express’ coaches that were used between Birmingham and London. Tested up to 85mph!

http://midlandred.net/vehicles/fleet...&page=overview

[Gerard C]

The DS could have been what its Bertoni design suggested, a rolling space ship. Now everything is over, people say the SM was killed by "le premier choc pétrolier" but frankly the Maserati engine was more shouting his pain under the bonnet than singing. Poor power to weight ratio apart, what a car! Of course both are what we call "des voitures d'ingénieur" some mechanical interventions are inlay complicated and fastidious. He who already changed a batterie on a SM will tell you… or the timing chain on a DS!

[Peter Mallett]

Mike, we had another 5 hours to discuss business.

Gerard, the Citroen suspension system was used by both Bentley and Rolls Royce for many years.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by grantp

I agree.

Certainly just before they reduced the speed limits for coaches a decade or so back they could run at around 80mph but I doubt that was the case for a typical charabanc back in the 50s and 60s. I used to drive Watford to Northampton and Watford to Birmingham on the M1 quite a bit in the mid 70s , mostly in an Escort van and that would realistically top out at about 75 unless your were prepared to go deaf or had a string tail wind. Trucks and buses had nothing like the power that appeared in the following decade and in reality not much went past me most days. There again traffic volumes were much lower.

Once the motorway network became more joined up, and especially after the M25 opened the opportunity to really cut journey time and change the coach economics with more power and higher capacity, seemed to change the UK coach specs quite significantly with the European manufacturers appearing in the market.

That didn't last long after a number of accidents led to the introduction of lower speed for PSVs and the natural increase in the traffic levels clogged the routes anyway.

I think the truck and coach restrictions were also considered helpful in terms of slowing all other traffic as the same time without actually introducing a limit that might be unpopular with the masses.

Sorry if this is derailing the topic, but as someone who's lived in Leicestershire all my life and remember the M1 being extended through the county, I'm always baffled to hear about 'The M! Motorway, from London to Birmingham'. I can't see how it could have run to Birmingham. Before being extended to (and beyond) Leicestershire the motorway finished at Crick which is a way south of where the M6 (which does go to Birmingham) joins the M1 (but this was built many years later anyway). The A5 (which was the road the M1 joined at Crick) doesn't go to Birmingham either...
If someone could explain this to me I would be very happy to have a long running question answered!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sorry if this is derailing the topic, but as someone who's lived in Leicestershire all my life and remember the M1 being extended through the county, I'm always baffled to hear about 'The M! Motorway, from London to Birmingham'. I can't see how it could have run to Birmingham. Before being extended to (and beyond) Leicestershire the motorway finished at Crick which is a way south of where the M6 (which does go to Birmingham) joins the M1 (but this was built many years later anyway). The A5 (which was the road the M1 joined at Crick) doesn't go to Birmingham either...
If someone could explain this to me I would be very happy to have a long running question answered!

This does appear to be another of the London-centric views of the UK.

A Londoner, heading to Birmingham, is likely to take the M1 early in their journey. Form that perspective, it is the M1 to Birmingham, neglecting the fact that they have to get onto other roads to complete the journey.

As someone who grew up in Shropshire, people there would refer to taking the M54 to Birmingham - again this neglects the fact that you have to join the M6. I don't think I've ever heard someone from west of Wolverhampton refer to taking the M6 to Birmingham.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Gerard, the Citroen suspension system was used by both Bentley and Rolls Royce for many years.

Ha, yes? Didn't know, thank you. The actual Audi systems is inspired by the Citroën one, but they use air instead of oil. Germans like the leaks to be as clean as possible I guess…

As to you wonderful RR's, a strange old story says that Sir Frederick Henry was so fed up with his Delaunay Belleville failures that he wanted his engineers to design a luxury car like the french one but not poorly made. I recall he was involved in industrial crane business. Am I correct?

PS/ Midget, should I say Sir Henry Royce?

[Gerard C]

Some of our classic are not always unmolested tho… Many models with a front mounted gearbox had obviously the timing chain located at rear, meaning close to the bulkhead, Renault 4 and DS come to mind. Some mechanics didn't want to bother with an engine removal use to make "une trappe de visite" behind the dash! For instance the Pantera had one from new and not the 914, both being central rear engined…

[bauble]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This does appear to be another of the London-centric views of the UK.

A Londoner, heading to Birmingham, is likely to take the M1 early in their journey. Form that perspective, it is the M1 to Birmingham, neglecting the fact that they have to get onto other roads to complete the journey.

As someone who grew up in Shropshire, people there would refer to taking the M54 to Birmingham - again this neglects the fact that you have to join the M6. I don't think I've ever heard someone from west of Wolverhampton refer to taking the M6 to Birmingham.

Darn Souf we called it the Leeds - Paddington Motorway.

[Mike Harte]

A very brief return to the subject of suicide doors on cars, I just remembered that the original Fiat 500s, and I believe the 600s as well, had them in the 50s and 60s.

On the coach front, I think that the first coach that was capable of maintaining high speed cruising on motorways was the twin engined double decker that was introduced in the not too distant past. Unfortunately, I cannot remember any more details about it.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This does appear to be another of the London-centric views of the UK.

A Londoner, heading to Birmingham, is likely to take the M1 early in their journey. Form that perspective, it is the M1 to Birmingham, neglecting the fact that they have to get onto other roads to complete the journey.

As someone who grew up in Shropshire, people there would refer to taking the M54 to Birmingham - again this neglects the fact that you have to join the M6. I don't think I've ever heard someone from west of Wolverhampton refer to taking the M6 to Birmingham.

I think the original signs suggested that the most distant major City that one might be logically heading for on the M1 form London would be Birmingham, it being at the time a major manufacturing centre. Everything else would likely take the A1 to the North East or the A6 up the centre.

We lived in sarf London at the time but my mother was from Leicester so every month to six weeks we would head north for Sunday lunch. Difficult to believe these days. As I recall we used the A5 originally. I hate to think how long it took before the M1 existed. The journey seemed to take an eternity.

I can recall the long trek home in the dark past what seemed to be endless roadworks. The Watford to Crick section saved just under an hour each way as I recall. However not long after it opened we moved to Germany for a couple of years and on return we were just south of Lincoln so the M1 was not part of our lives. I came to know the A1 quite well instead.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Some of our classic are not always unmolested tho… Many models with a front mounted gearbox had obviously the timing chain located at rear, meaning close to the bulkhead, Renault 4 and DS come to mind. Some mechanics didn't want to bother with an engine removal use to make "une trappe de visite" behind the dash! For instance the Pantera had one from new and not the 914, both being central rear engined…

914 engine and gearbox are easy to remove, only a few bolts and it drops out - like a VW Beetle - and a lot of space around it so no real need for an "inspection hatch".

Also the 914 had gear driven cams rather than a chain - 914-6 did have a chain though, but being a Porsche engine I suspect by the time the chain needed attention so did the rest of the engine and you might as well take it out!

[Gerard C]

Peter thanks for the explanation but my french mechanic feels there's not so much room around the 914/6 engine hidden under a narrow gril! May be he prepares the landing of some labor invoice or his hands are too large! Inspection hatch make any work on the alternator or ignition easier. Anyway, when its done its done! Agreed, if you have to work on the chain tensioners you've better put the whole down. I had to consider a turbo change on my 951 and the question was roughly the same… To put the engine down or not to put it down, that is the question…

[Gerard C]

By the way do you have a good solution to have a more precise gearbox lever? Same as for an Alfetta I guess. May be you have the Bussolini HTC GTV 2.5 preparer (may be Claudio not sure) in your area .

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

On the coach front, I think that the first coach that was capable of maintaining high speed cruising on motorways was the twin engined double decker that was introduced in the not too distant past. Unfortunately, I cannot remember any more details about it.

So not the Midland Red CM5 / CM5T (T for toilet ) I posted a link to on the last page? In its day, compared with most cars it was definitely capable of ‘high speed cruising’ en route from London to Birmingham.....

http://midlandred.net/vehicles/fleet...&page=overview

https://www.theguardian.com/theguard...d-barrier-1959

[Mike Bell]

Seems there will be car production in Swindon- well, 100 cars anyway! Swindon Powertrain are to electrify a batch of Classic Minis with quite a sophisticated (by the sound of it) battery and motor system. Not new idea though, BMW have already done a conversion, but just displayed it at one motor show! Bit of a waste.....

Was quite impressed reading about the Swindon car until I got to the price- from £79k...... That’s an iPace with change, two Konas or E-Neros, or a lightly used Model S!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Peter thanks for the explanation but my french mechanic feels there's not so much room around the 914/6 engine hidden under a narrow gril! May be he prepares the landing of some labor invoice or his hands are too large! Inspection hatch make any work on the alternator or ignition easier. Anyway, when its done its done! Agreed, if you have to work on the chain tensioners you've better put the whole down. I had to consider a turbo change on my 951 and the question was roughly the same… To put the engine down or not to put it down, that is the question…

Yep the hatch above the engine is tiny and there will be even less space around a 6 cylinder than a 4.
Being air cooled means there's a lot less stuff to disconnect so taking the engine out is a lot simpler than most cars.

Access is a problem on lots of flat engines - changing Subaru spark plugs is a pain apparently (luckily they last a very long time).

Years ago when the Flat-12 Testarossa came out a friend said that at one of the first services they did all the valve clearances and that cost as much as a VW Golf because they had to take the engine out!