Benelux Touringcar Championship

[werner]

Here is the thread were we can discuss this potential championship, a discussion started in the thread about the DTC.

About Rademecker and the chevy. If Chevy Netherlands and or Belguim would want to race in the 'BTC', Rademecker would be a good choise as a driver, since he already has experience with the chevy, and he is a well known driver. That's why I put him on my imaginary list. Maurer would be a good partner for them to run the car(s) since they have some experience to. The car can fome from anywhere, most probably a 1-year old WTCC-car.

And I want to know how good the Megane from Finland (?) is/was.

[Bramzel]

The Megane was from the DTC, and it was running in the midfield/backfield if I recall correctly.

[Bramzel]

To come back at what teams might enter: I'm pretty sure that the big stables like Team Bleekemolen and Equipe Verschuur would enter some cars, and probably most of the bigger (read richer ) teams could enter. There's a good selection of second hand S2000 cars available these days, so it wouldn't cost the world to enter. Add to that a S1600 junior class (could be to fill the grid in the first years, and eventually a seperate supportclass) and you have a pretty nice grid.

[duke_toaster]

Yeah, S2000 could be used, and then allow SuperProduction, S1600 and JTCC (as well as odds, bods and sods for the first few years, like Clios, SEAT Supercopas and similar) as a class B.

It could go to Spa, Zolder, Assen and Zandvoort. Now ... how will the Luxembourg bit come in?

[Valker]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

how will the Luxembourg bit come in?

Wasn't Nürburgring F1 race called Luxemburg GP in 97/98?

[Bramzel]

BeNeLux is usually just used as a name to indicate the area, like Scandinavia or the Baltic States. Regarding a BeNeLux championship I don't think we have to expect much from Luxenbourg

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Valker

Wasn't Nürburgring F1 race called Luxemburg GP in 97/98?

It's not exactly a real Luxemburg GP, is it? Goodyear have a test track at Colmar-Berg, though.

[Stefvh]

Or just a streetCourse in Luxembourg-Ville.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Stefvh

Or just a streetCourse in Luxembourg-Ville.

I feel sure a nice one could be cooked up.

[FIRE]

Or using that circuit in Belgian Luxembourg (Spa )

[Stefvh]

It's not in the Luxemburg Province, it's Liège.

[duke_toaster]

What about this track?

[Bramzel]

With just Assen, Zandvoort, Zolder and Spa you could make a pretty nice calendar already. Add perhaps a trip to a German track and you're all set.

[JorritVD]

My idea about a Touring car championship.

Countries: Holland, Gemany and Belgium.
Possible tracks: Assen, Zandvoort, Spa, Zolder, Oschersleben, Nürburgring, EuroSpeedway Lausitz, Sachsenring and Salzburgring.
Possible events: ADAC GT Masters, DSC Finals Assen, Rizla Racing days assen, Belcar/BTCS, Fia ETCC, Fia GT, DTM 24h Nürburgring.

Class 1: S2000 / S2000D + Seat Leon Supercopa (like PTCC)
Regulations: Fia WTCC S2000

Class 2: S1600
Regulations: ADAC Procar, DMSB 1600
or S1600 WRC or Clio Cup or Mini Challenge or VW polo Cup or VW Jetta TDI cup tec.

Class 1: Possible entries
Tom Coronel (NLD) - SUNRED / Seat Team Holland - Seat Leon
PY Corthals (B) - Exagon Engineering / SEAT Belgium - Seat Leon
Ricardo van der Ende (NLD) - Ekris Motorsport / BMW Team Holland - BMW 320si
Tim Coronel (NLD) - Ekris Motorsport / BMW Team Holland - BMW 320si
Duncan Huisman (NLD) - Ekris Motorsport / BMW Team Holland - BMW 320si
Winner Cliocup (NLD/B) - Renault Laguna/Megane
Tim Verbergt (B) - Audi Belgium - Audi A4
Olivier Tielemans (NLD) - Wiechers-Sport - BMW 320si
Jaap van Lagen (NLD) - Russian Bears Motorsport - LADA 110 2.0
Viktor Shapovalov (RUS) - Russian Bears Motorsport - LADA 110 2.0
Maria de Villota (ESP) - Maurer Motorsport - Chevrolet Lacetti
Philip Geipel (GER) - TFS-YACO-Racing - Toyota Auris
? - Engstler Motorsport - BMW 320si
? - Engstler Motorsport - BMW 320i
Rainer Bastuck (GER) - Kissling Motorsport - Opel Astra GTC
Peter Rikli (GER) - Rikli Motorsport - Honda Accord Euro R
Gilles Bruckner (LUX) - LUX Motor - Ford Focus ST
Vladimir Labazov (RUS) - Avtodom Racing - BMW 320i
Milko Tas (NLD) - Brax Racing - Seat Leon Supercopa
Ferry & Robin Monster (NLD) - Team Moreel - Seat Leon Supercopa

[FIRE]

A Benelux championship. Great idea but I don't see it happen.


This season the Touringcar Diesel Cup (TDC) started. In this series BMW 120d, Alfa 147, Sean Ibiza Cupra and VW Golf are racing. The cars were given some breaks to make the performance of the cars equel. Why not doing this with petrol cars?

Manufacturers build a racing car based on a 2L production car (Group N, something like the current BMW 130i Cup car, much cheaper as S2000). Target laptime at Zandvoort: 1m52 (?). An independent team will test and homologate the car. If needed there are given some performance breaks. So it's like in FIA GT3.

Which cars? In the last 10 years mainly BMW, Renault, Pon Car (SEAT, Audi, VW importer) and Alfa were involved in Dutch racing. So I expect interest from them. So we get these cars:
BMW 120i
Renault Megane
Audi A3, SEAT Leon or VW Golf
Alfa 147

Of course other manufacturers, like Volvo C30 or Opel Astra, are welcome.

With 4 manufacturers involved each manufacturer enters at least 5 cars. But if there are 5 or 6 manufacturers they only need to enter 4 cars. So there's a minimum grid of 20 cars.

Possible teams:
Ekris Motorsport (BMW)
Equipe Verschuur (Renault?)
Team Bleekemolen (Renault?)
Racing for Holland
Renova/Cor Euser (BMW)
Certainty Racing
McGregor-Flexx Racing
Madeno Racing (Alfa)
Sanders
Carly Motors (BMW)
Match Racing


Race format: Two 30 min. races on Sunday. No wheel of fortune.

The new Dutch Touring Car Championship is born...

[werner]

The main advantage of an S2000-championship is that cars are available and are also sellable. It is a big risk to built a car to discover that after 1 or 2 years the cup fails and you can't enter your car anywhere else. If S2000 is to expensive, SuperProduction is better.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by JorritVD

My idea about a Touring car championship.

Countries: Holland, Gemany and Belgium.
Possible tracks: Assen, Zandvoort, Spa, Zolder, Oschersleben, Nürburgring, EuroSpeedway Lausitz, Sachsenring and Salzburgring.
Possible events: ADAC GT Masters, DSC Finals Assen, Rizla Racing days assen, Belcar/BTCS, Fia ETCC, Fia GT, DTM 24h Nürburgring.

Class 1: S2000 / S2000D + Seat Leon Supercopa (like PTCC)
Regulations: Fia WTCC S2000

Class 2: S1600
Regulations: ADAC Procar, DMSB 1600
or S1600 WRC or Clio Cup or Mini Challenge or VW polo Cup or VW Jetta TDI cup tec.

Probably would work best, although the only German venues I would choose is Nurby as the others might be a long trek from the Netherlands (OK, not a flyaway but the BTCC had problems going to Ireland).

Maybe a trip to Blitzheim in France, as well ...

As far as the cars are concerned, that looks right to have a mixture of one make type cars in the 2nd class. Maybe have DMSB Diesels in Class 2 ...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

What about this track?

You *******.

[FIRE]

I read an interview with the competition manager of Zandvoort. In 2009 they want to start a new premier racing series. At the moment they focus on two options:
a) S2000 (and group N like JTCC?). Disadvantage is high costs
or
b) GT4

For both options they want involvement from importers and dealers.

In the first season he thinks they need foreign teams (Scandinavian, British, German and Belgian) to get a full grid.


Why not using Supestars cars? I can imagine they are cheaper as S2000.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I read an interview with the competition manager of Zandvoort. In 2009 they want to start a new premier racing series. At the moment they focus on two options:
a) S2000 (and group N like JTCC?). Disadvantage is high costs
or
b) GT4

For both options they want involvement from importers and dealers.

In the first season he thinks they need foreign teams (Scandinavian, British, German and Belgian) to get a full grid.


Why not using Supestars cars? I can imagine they are cheaper as S2000.

IMO they should take a look at the Koni Challenge rules. The cars are quite affordable and they have huge grids in the USA. There's also a great variety of cars, with up to ten makes entered in the ST division. The big GS division is a lot like GT4 and mostly populated by Mustangs, M3s and Porsche 997.

Short video from the 2007 Daytona race: http://www.koni-na.com/movies/KCSDaytona2007.mov

[JorritVD]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I read an interview with the competition manager of Zandvoort. In 2009 they want to start a new premier racing series. At the moment they focus on two options:
a) S2000 (and group N like JTCC?). Disadvantage is high costs
or
b) GT4

I think GT4 is not a good idea. Then they are competing with the Dutch Supercar Challenge. And GT4 isn't very attractive. Look at Fia GT4 and some national championships. Also S2000 cars looks more than race cars than GT4. GT3 would be a better idea. There already many cars in the DSC and enough cars dor sale.

[werner]

I think we can have both. What can be done is to make the Belgian GT3-championship, witch is pretty succesful already with 20+ GT3-cars, and about 10 cars in a lower class, have 2 or 3 of it's races (ofwitch 4 are in Zolder, 2 in Spa and 1 in France) at a Dutch circuit, and to have the dates witch are now free in Belgium to be occupied with the best classes of the Dutch series, with the S2000-championship as header.
For instance the races of 1 june could be switched (Zandvoort / Zolder) And the 26 oktober DSC-race in Assen could be switched with the 19 oktober Belgian GT-races in Zolder. And maybe there is place for another race at the Francorchampagneweekend, so touringcars could race there to. That would make for a top GT3-championship with 1 race in France, 2 races in the Netherlands and 4 in Belgium, and a touringcarchampionship with 1 race in Francorchamps and 2 in Zolder (there is already 1) and 1 race in Assen and 4 in Zandvoort. Not ideal, but a good place to start, and way better than 1x Zolder, 1x Assen and 5x Zandvoort.

[Ellmau]

It looks like our prayers have been heard. The DTCC will make a come back, at least for once, in september this year.

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2527

[Bramzel]

Lets hope it opens the eyes again of some people

[werner]

If the main cars and drivers will be on the grid, I think I'll be attending those races.