The future of Touring Cars

[redshoes]

Just received a press release from ETCC promotors KSO which makes interesting reading. Last week they held a meeting of various national championship promotors and the FIA to discuss the future of touring cars in Europe.

So far we have
- ETCC using S2000 regs
- STCC using S2000 regs with some local modifications
- Danish TCC to adopt S2000 from 2004
- Italian TCC to allow S2000 from 2004 as a second class alongside current Super Production cars
- BTCC to allow S2000 from 2004 alongside current BTC-T cars
- DTC (Germany) moving from SP to S2000 regs in 2 steps 2004/2005

Another interesting idea was the posibility of running a combined event with ETCC and national championship running in the same race - for example the Donington BTCC round could also count for ETCC points.

Nothing concrete yet but it's a step in the right direction.

[FIRE]

It's good to see that the different promotors all move to the S2000 rules.

[Kurt Maxwell]

Yes. This is great news for tourenwagen fans.

I saw this on the ETCC site and thought- is it practical to expect to see what was discussed actually happen?

With these national series already moving in the direction of Super 2000 rules it seems to be a very viable concept.

Like in the ST era a manufacturer can now go ahead with a new car knowing that the R and D costs can be spread out over several different teams and series.

Lets hope that with common rules we might soon see Audi,Renault, Ford (or one of their brands) and Toyota come in with major TC programs.

[Kurt Maxwell]

oh-and I forgot to add that it would also be nice to see some Accords and a few C-Class Mercedes as well.

[Carrie]

Sounds interesting and surely has to be positive for Touring Cars, it has to be encouraging for manufacturers (the only negative being, will that be at the detriment of private teams).
I quite like the idea of combined races. Or if not that, then how about a big Touring Car meeting where you have an ETCC race meeting and say a BTCC meeting on the same weekend.

[FIRE]

Originally posted by Kurt Maxwell
...and a few C-Class Mercedes as well.

Forget it!
Mercedes concentrates on DTM.

[Kurt Maxwell]

Yes, but it would still be great to see Daimler enter real touring car racing and compete with real cars.

I guess as long as Norbert is in charge of motorsport that is not likely to happen.

[rdjones]

Sounds interesting and looks like a postive move to me. If it works then I reckon we could be back to the good old days of ST. I'm all for it.

[kmchow]

Yeah, I hope the s2000 will soon be entering it's golden age, like ST once did!

[racer69]

A standard set of Touring Car regulations across Europe (across the world would be much better) is definatly the right move.

As for using the Super2000 regulations, if thats what the manufacturers want to do, then i suppose go with it. If the rules catered for cars across the world (i'm beating a dead horse about this i know, but Group A style rules), then a 'world touring car formula' would have a better chance of working in the likes of America and Australia.

Touring Cars needs a worldwide foundation for regulations, like what Rallying has

[speedy king]

Thats what made super Touring boom, because all countries had the ST rules

[touringlegend]

Sounds good, makes sense doesn't it.

Just look at the manufacturers there's been rumours about since TOCA decided to allow S2000 cars in 2004 - all this can only make the domestic championships more tempting for the car makers!

[Kurt Maxwell]

TCL- The national series and the international one will both benefit from this move.

40+ car grids when the ETCC comes to town?

This is really promising.

[JEMMO]

Shouldn't this discussion have happened at the end of 2000 when all the new regulations were first being decided?

[Craig]

IIRC the BTC-T regs were devised over the winter of 2000 and unveiled in Feb/March 2001. The ETCC ran to Super Touring regs in 2001 and introduced it's new rules early in 2002.

Unfortunately the ETCC organisers decided to go their own route rather than work with an existing set of regs which were, by the end of the 2001 season, starting to prove succesful.

[Tim.Lad]

Hmmm something just come to mind…. Now we know that ETCC cars will be eligible for 2004 is it possible that if for example Vauxhall decide to run with there new astra next year, that they will build the car to ETCC specs instead of the BTCC regs to enable them a more cost affective entry into ETCC, or even run the new Astra in the ETCC as a proving ground before a full assault in the BTCC for 2005 …

[kmchow]

If the BTCC will allow ETCC cars to race, wouldn't it be cheaper to produce 3 more cars for the BTCC at the same time. This way, you can gather twice the data and perhaps R&D can progress faster? Aero aids no longer play as much of a role as they once did in ST?

[Sodemo]

I do like the ETCC regulations, however the cars need to be louder and faster.

[Larsen]

the ETCC cars look like proper touring cars with the 4 doors

[touringlegend]

km, I'm not entirely sure if especially sending cars to the BTCC would speed up the devlopment of cars overall.

Most of the BTCC tracks are far shorter and twistier than any of the ETCC tracks.

Look at how much of a dog the Peugeot 406 was in ST in the BTCC - yet it won titles on the continent!

[FIRE]

Originally posted by touringlegend
km, I'm not entirely sure if especially sending cars to the BTCC would speed up the devlopment of cars overall.

Most of the BTCC tracks are far shorter and twistier than any of the ETCC tracks.

Look at how much of a dog the Peugeot 406 was in ST in the BTCC - yet it won titles on the continent!

Were the German cars the same as the British cars? Or were they developt by other companies?

[redshoes]

The STW cars were built in-house by Peugeot France. The BTCC cars by Peugeot UK and later by MSD. Peugeot UK got absolutely no data or technical input from France.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by touringlegend
Look at how much of a dog the Peugeot 406 was in ST in the BTCC - yet it won titles on the continent!

Besides the aero differences, there was also the engine differences. The STW Pugs were definitely more powerful than the BTCC ones. Would it have mattered I'm not sure? In the latter ST years, it seems aerodynamics played more of a role than engine power? The BTCC depended a lot more on aero than engine. The STW was the opposite. It seems Australia was fairly balanced? Don't know about the other championships? The NATCC was more hp than aero.