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Old 28 Nov 2022, 16:01 (Ref:4135200)   #691
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Originally Posted by billy bleach View Post
Didn't Motorbase want to go RWD?
They do / did. The NGTC parts may be attractive to them - or even to take the cars and make the switch to BMW.

One thing I am not sure of is the homologation restrictions they may face if they take on the BMWs. Laser Tools faced the same challenge when they had the A-Class, and Ciceley held restrictions over the changes that Laser Tools could make with the car.

Moffat Sr: "Aiden wasn't enjoying himself with the Mercedes. Everyone else had moved on so much, and Ciceley had the rights to the car, so although I was prepared to spend money on development they seemed to want to go in their own direction"

I'm sure that the Motorbase camp will be wary of this when deciding whether to take on the BMWs.
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 16:08 (Ref:4135202)   #692
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
They do / did. The NGTC parts may be attractive to them - or even to take the cars and make the switch to BMW.

One thing I am not sure of is the homologation restrictions they may face if they take on the BMWs. Laser Tools faced the same challenge when they had the A-Class, and Ciceley held restrictions over the changes that Laser Tools could make with the car.

Moffat Sr: "Aiden wasn't enjoying himself with the Mercedes. Everyone else had moved on so much, and Ciceley had the rights to the car, so although I was prepared to spend money on development they seemed to want to go in their own direction"

I'm sure that the Motorbase camp will be wary of this when deciding whether to take on the BMWs.
Unless there’s 4 BMWs for sale I doubt Motorbase would be buying them. It’s a four car team not two
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 16:10 (Ref:4135203)   #693
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
That depends on who acquires the 2x TBLs that were in the hands of Ciceley, what WSR do with their 3x TBLs and the plans for the 6x BMWs.

Always remember - Ciceley might be selling the cars to another team that want to use the NGTC components in a different make of car.
autosport today say that Morgan will be taking one of his TBL to WSR to make a four car squad and their other TBL has been sold to speedworks to run three cars.
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 16:43 (Ref:4135207)   #694
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
They do / did. The NGTC parts may be attractive to them - or even to take the cars and make the switch to BMW.

One thing I am not sure of is the homologation restrictions they may face if they take on the BMWs. Laser Tools faced the same challenge when they had the A-Class, and Ciceley held restrictions over the changes that Laser Tools could make with the car.

Moffat Sr: "Aiden wasn't enjoying himself with the Mercedes. Everyone else had moved on so much, and Ciceley had the rights to the car, so although I was prepared to spend money on development they seemed to want to go in their own direction"

I'm sure that the Motorbase camp will be wary of this when deciding whether to take on the BMWs.

It may not be totally clear-cut, to us on the outside, about who holds any rights to the BMW. However, it must be borne in mind that the Ciceley cars were originally sourced from WSR, so there may be restrictions placed on what can be done by either WSR and/or Cicely.
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 17:04 (Ref:4135213)   #695
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
so there may be restrictions placed on what can be done by either WSR and/or Cicely.
what restrictions when most of the car is standard parts anyway
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 17:48 (Ref:4135216)   #696
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Originally Posted by porsche962fan View Post
what restrictions when most of the car is standard parts anyway
In 2019, Bob Moffat spoke at length about the restrictions placed on them in developing the A-Class.
They had no access to the IP rights, and all of the development direction was dictated by Ciceley to suit Adam Morgan's style - not Aiden Moffat's.

BTC have also found themselves in the same situation with the TD Civics, with having to adopt the aero package that TD apply to the car, and not provide their own.

There may be a lot of common parts underneath, but body, aero and packaging of the parts is determined by the homologation and rights owner of the car. In the case of the 330e, I would expect this to be WSR that hold the rights, meaning that anyone who purchased the ex-Ciceley cars would have to follow WSR's lead for development (not necessarily a bad thing, but if you want to beat them you may want to take a different path).
It is this reason that BTC want to move away from having a customer car, and applies to a lot of teams on the grid having built NGTC experience.
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 18:20 (Ref:4135222)   #697
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
It is this reason that BTC want to move away from having a customer car, and applies to a lot of teams on the grid having built NGTC experience.
I don't understand , back in the Group C days a lot of Porsche 956 / 962 customers did their own development on those cars, most well know a certain Richard Lloyd and his 962 GTI , a brand newly developed chassis underneath and outside things like a front wing and modified rear wing and a big company like Porsche didn't mind and in the BTCC they stuck with restrictive crap like this

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Old 28 Nov 2022, 18:21 (Ref:4135223)   #698
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Shame we won’t see Cicely. Hope someone snaps up Morgan, as he can then show he’s not a one trick pony, who can only win in his family team
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 18:31 (Ref:4135227)   #699
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On the 4x BMW for WSR (two each for WSR and MB satellite if that's the case.)

With 6 BMW's having being built. Is chassis #1 retired again?
With #1 replacing #6 damaged at Oulton for the second half of the year, does that mean that there is a possibility that #6 hasn't been/won't be fully repaired? Meaning it's a bit easier to bring the two Ciceley machines under the WSR wings than building another?

Must admit when I read the statement my initial thought was that Morgan was gone - with a personal hope that he'd go to TCR to pick up from the end of 2019 ;-) I mean, if the racing bug is still there, without the hassle of sorting an NGTC car out every two weeks, and the expense of GT, would it be a thing? But after reading Autosport it seems likely doesn't it?

I still reckon that one or two from this year might look at TCR for next year, Europe or UK considering the budget difference.
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 19:18 (Ref:4135244)   #700
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
autosport today say that Morgan will be taking one of his TBL to WSR to make a four car squad and their other TBL has been sold to speedworks to run three cars.
Further to this - Marcus Simmons at Autosport has suggested WSRs 2023 line-up will be Turkington, Jelley, Hill, and Morgan. According to Simmons, Gamble is in discussions with FWD and RWD teams for the 2023 season.

Last edited by SSmith; 28 Nov 2022 at 19:19. Reason: Corrected grammar
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Old 28 Nov 2022, 20:15 (Ref:4135250)   #701
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Originally Posted by coffinpilot View Post
With 6 BMW's having being built. Is chassis #1 retired again?
With #1 replacing #6 damaged at Oulton for the second half of the year, does that mean that there is a possibility that #6 hasn't been/won't be fully repaired?
#6 has been repaired. I don't know what has happed to #1 but assume it will be re-retired.
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Old 29 Nov 2022, 07:56 (Ref:4135288)   #702
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Originally Posted by SSmith View Post
Further to this - Marcus Simmons at Autosport has suggested WSRs 2023 line-up will be Turkington, Jelley, Hill, and Morgan. According to Simmons, Gamble is in discussions with FWD and RWD teams for the 2023 season.
Gamble with RWD teams.... The only other RWD team this year was Laser Tools, who are looking for new cars and we know Motorbase are considering RWD options but their 4 drivers are not expected to change. Are there more teams making the switch? BTC and PMR are the only ones I can think of
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Old 29 Nov 2022, 08:30 (Ref:4135293)   #703
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Can see Morgan at WSR, they like giving drivers a chance.
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Old 29 Nov 2022, 09:36 (Ref:4135326)   #704
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Gamble with RWD teams.... The only other RWD team this year was Laser Tools, who are looking for new cars and we know Motorbase are considering RWD options but their 4 drivers are not expected to change. Are there more teams making the switch? BTC and PMR are the only ones I can think of
Depends if Ciceley have sold on their 2nd BMW, it could already be with an existing team!?!?
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Old 29 Nov 2022, 09:36 (Ref:4135327)   #705
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they like drivers with lot of £££
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