[WEC] Are American Manufacturers incapable of fielding LMP1?

[Danathar]

So what is the deal with Ford and GM? If Audi and Toyota whom are both global brands as well can see value in fielding a P1 car why not Ford and GM?

I laughed out loud when Ford tried to call their Ganassi Ford Ecoboost car a "Factory" operation. HA! They don't even make the chassis.

[dbagtbag]

I think its more that they tended to have little interest in the prototypes (Ford got involved in the 60s because HFord had beef with Ferrari). GM is involved with their Corvette program but that is largely Pratt & Miller.

The North American trainwreck that was the 3 auto giants was only 5 or 6 years ago and they are still recovering. I don't know if the execs think they can justify the heavy expenses of being involved in Le Mans at the top category.

[Rodger Davies]

exactly, just how relevant is Le Mans in the American market? Can't blame them for not investing if they don't see themselves getting a return on that investment.

[skycafe]

Well, Audi's chassis is still coming from Dallara I believe....

They can certainly buy in the talent, equipment, etc. they would need, but I think the bigger (biggest) issue would be commitment. There is no Ford II pounding a fist and vowing to win LeMans/beat Ferrari at any cost.

[Maelochs]

US manufacturers don't see any value in racing sports cars overseas when sports car racing barely means anything right here in the U.S.

Why spend huge amounts of money to build a car which almost no customers will ever know about or care about even after a huge PR campaign?

Sure, GM or Ford could build one---but they don't see how they could Profit from building one.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

exactly, just how relevant is Le Mans in the American market? Can't blame them for not investing if they don't see themselves getting a return on that investment.

Well Ford and GM are pretty nicely involved in foreign markets too, albeit less so than the Japanese and European companies.

Probably the same reason none of them seem to ever have interest in F1. Ford had engines in the past but lets be honest, they weren't Fords they were Cosworth.

[Richard C]

Incapable? No. Do they think it will benefit them to join? Currently No.

Richard

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Well, Audi's chassis is still coming from Dallara I believe....

.

No they come from an Italian company.

[Koenigsegg]

Their main market is US. It doesn't make a lot of sense for them from a marketing point of view to invest heavily in a global championship.

- Dodge is not active in Europe. Fiat (the group) is, but they're struggling financially in Europe.
- Chevrolet (the brand) will stop in Europe late 2015. Leaving Opel and Vauxhall as the main GM brands for the European market.
- Ford is active and popular in Europe. But I guess Ford doesn't want to spend a lot of money on motorsport at the moment. They're doing TUSC, NASCAR, Formula Ford... something else? They stopped backing M-Sport in WRC.

Audi, Toyota, Porsche and Nissan all have a big market in Europe, but also in the US, Asia and Latin America (<-- besides for Porsche). From a marketing perspective, it makes more sense that those 4 manufacturers have a P1 than American manufacturers.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

No they come from an Italian company.

YCOM to be exact but the point still stands. Audi doesn't make the chassis.

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

Their main market is US. It doesn't make a lot of sense for them from a marketing point of view to invest heavily in a global championship.

- Dodge is not active in Europe. Fiat (the group) is, but they're struggling financially in Europe.
- Chevrolet (the brand) will stop in Europe late 2015. Leaving Opel and Vauxhall as the main GM brands for the European market.
- Ford is active and popular in Europe. But I guess Ford doesn't want to spend a lot of money on motorsport at the moment. They're doing TUSC, NASCAR, Formula Ford... something else? They stopped backing M-Sport in WRC.

Audi, Toyota, Porsche and Nissan all have a big market in Europe, but also in the US, Asia and Latin America (<-- besides for Porsche). From a marketing perspective, it makes more sense that those 4 manufacturers have a P1 than American manufacturers.

If you follow this line of thought. What manufacturers would make sense next. To me it's BMW.

[ptclaus98]

The American auto companies don't like to go anywhere where the rules aren't influenced by their presence. Scared of competition might be the phrase I'm looking for.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by Articus

YCOM to be exact but the point still stands. Audi doesn't make the chassis.

They aren't or weren't alone in this either. The Nissan R90C was a Lola chassis, Toyota GT-One was a Dallara although I'm pretty sure the TS030 and 040 are TMG chassis.

If you follow this line of thought. What manufacturers would make sense next. To me it's BMW.

Or Mack, Scania or Isuzu. They have a large piece of the global market share for trucks on all continents =p Imagine a Mack LMP hahaha

[Maelochs]

I believe Dallara made several of the recent Audi sports racer monocoques; the latest is made by a different Italian company.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by dbagtbag

Well Ford and GM are pretty nicely involved in foreign markets too, albeit less so than the Japanese and European companies.

Probably the same reason none of them seem to ever have interest in F1. Ford had engines in the past but lets be honest, they weren't Fords they were Cosworth.

That's what I don't understand. GM sells GOBS of cars overseas. People may not pay attention in the U.S., but overseas customers do. Audi, Porsche and Toyota would not be there if they didn't.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

The American auto companies don't like to go anywhere where the rules aren't influenced by their presence. Scared of competition might be the phrase I'm looking for.

Well, what I'd say to them if that is the case... is that the rules CAN'T be influenced by their presence if they HAVE NO PRESENCE.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Incapable? No. Do they think it will benefit them to join? Currently No.

Richard

That begs the question though.

How can it be beneficial for Toyota and Audi but not GM?

All three are global car manufacturers and sell cars everywhere. All three (and soon to be 4) P1 competitors have stated they get good ROI in terms of development feedback making these cars.

[Dodge_Swinger]

They are certainly capable, but they spend most of their money on NASCAR. If GM or Ford put their NASCAR budget behind an LMP1 program, they would be on equal footing with Audi, at least budget-wise.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Articus

YCOM to be exact but the point still stands. Audi doesn't make the chassis.

Thanks, I did not know there had been a change! Also, where/by whom, is the Porsche chassis made?

[Pandemonium]

I don´t think they would be too capable...

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Thanks, I did not know there had been a change! Also, where/by whom, is the Porsche chassis made?

I think the Porsche chassis is made in house.

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

I don´t think they would be too capable...

I'd think they are. They have some massive resources at their disposal and it only takes the same deep pockets to hire a team of top notch engineers to bring them up to date on LMP technology and aero.

That being said the last time Cadillac and Chrysler had a shot at the LMP class, Audi just turned around and took a dump on them and it was pretty embarrassing for the supposed 'Audi beaters'.

Originally Posted by Dodge_Swinger

They are certainly capable, but they spend most of their money on NASCAR. If GM or Ford put their NASCAR budget behind an LMP1 program, they would be on equal footing with Audi, at least budget-wise.

They also put a lot of money (GM) into Indycar, although the chassis is not by the Big 3. Last year GM beat HPD so bad that engine regs were changed.

Also given the amount of emphasis the Americans put on branding and such, its not surprising they tend to stick to GT cars that have a more obvious connection to their road going models.

[Koenigsegg]

I might be wrong here, but isn't American autosport mostly about predesigned cars/chassis (from an external company) with an engine from a manufacturer in it? If they go P1, they have to do the designing. Or hire someone to design for them. That might be a struggle for them.

Originally Posted by NelisB

If you follow this line of thought. What manufacturers would make sense next. To me it's BMW.

Yes BMW. But also Hyundai/KIA, Honda, Mazda and Mercedes-Benz. Maybe Volvo as well??? Ferrari also fits in to be honest, they do have a global market.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Danathar

That begs the question though.

How can it be beneficial for Toyota and Audi but not GM?

All three are global car manufacturers and sell cars everywhere. All three (and soon to be 4) P1 competitors have stated they get good ROI in terms of development feedback making these cars.

Because Audi and Toyota are focused on building great road cars for the future. GM is focused on building great roadcars from days long ago.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Dodge_Swinger

They are certainly capable, but they spend most of their money on NASCAR. If GM or Ford put their NASCAR budget behind an LMP1 program, they would be on equal footing with Audi, at least budget-wise.

Yes, but it's the other things, at least on GM's end, that they would be miles behind in.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

GM is focused on building great roadcars from days long ago.

And that would result in recalls and lawsuits if they do that.

While an American entry into LMP1 would surprise me, I guess they're just being naive and not ready yet in my opinion when it comes to racing prototypes in the highest level.