Toro Rosso

[DeoValente]

I am a bit confused about a lot of things in life. One of them is the performance of Scuderia Torro Rosso. Yes they have a detuned V10 but still..they have been doing such incredibble laptimes it makes me wonder if that all comes from the engine or not. Does anybody have some useful insights on that car and engine?

[Hazard]

It's the car Red Bull used last year
It's the engine Red Bull used last year

To be honest, I think their performance has been less than what has been expected

[goodhorsehymn]

Agreed - I don't think they've lived up to their potential. They should in theory have a pretty decent package.

[marzF1rocks]

Its been a tough season for torro rosso and red bull,
I think maybe they just need a little more time to estblaish themselves

[ralf fan]

Reb Bull are doing no better than Torro Rosso at the moment in the new car. They are quicker but rarely seem to finish

[BootsOntheSide]

Older cars will always be more reliable than new ones, especially once the engine is detuned, but you're right that RBR have had especially bad reliability so far.

I think the threat from the restricted V10s has been overstated by commentators and those looking for a controversy. Time and again it has been predicted and not happened. Time to accept that they have not been sandbagging.

[DeoValente]

Ah they are using last years Red Bull chasis? heres me thinking they used the old Minardi chassis. Then its not so bad after all. Wasnt the 2005 red bull a slightly remodelled 2004 Jag or was it an entirely new car?

And for Rbr..I think they just had no luck in the races with crashes and all. Still they are not doing so great deal better than Torro Rosso with expensive Ferrari v8's.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by DeoValente

Ah they are using last years Red Bull chasis? heres me thinking they used the old Minardi chassis. Then its not so bad after all. Wasnt the 2005 red bull a slightly remodelled 2004 Jag or was it an entirely new car?

The '05 Bull was what was supposed be the '05 Jaguar.

The '06 Toro Rosso, I say it's last years Red Bull - obviously that's not allowed - it was built by Toro Rosso, effectively Minardi's people - but they were certainly using pretty pictures for last years Red Bull when they did it!

[FPV GTHO]

Wasnt the story that the 05 RBR was already built when RB took over, and the way Ford supposedly ran the Jag team was that someone else built the chassis? Thats what ive heard, and the 3 STR's have literally been handed over from RBR...

Either way, the RBR1 was also designed around the 1 set of tyres per race regulation, whereas the STR1 can abuse the tyres alot more, so i would expect there'd be a few technical issues around that. Just look at Toyota at the start of the year.

[Bleu]

STR's best chances to score points are almost gone. Monaco is probably last. Remember also that with the rev limiter they don't have normal progression with the engine, only progression with the car, whereas MF1 and Super Aguri can progress, if Toyota and Honda give newer engines.

[FPV GTHO]

Their best chance always was Monaco

[kipper]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Wasnt the story that the 05 RBR was already built when RB took over, and the way Ford supposedly ran the Jag team was that someone else built the chassis? Thats what ive heard, and the 3 STR's have literally been handed over from RBR...

I'd heard the same; apparently the Jaguar F1 cars were made by the Ford Motor Company for tax reasons. Red Bull purchased the entity known as 'Jaguar Racing' and used what would have been the R5 last year, which were then handed over to Toro Rosso. They could do this for the rules state that each team must make their own car or use one produced by a body not racing in F1. As the Ford Motor Company have never directly held an entry to F1, this satisifies that requirement. This also explain why Aguri cannot use last year's BAR for although the ownership of the team has changed, the company is still the same and so BAR still counts as an exisiting F1 team in these terms.

[R59]

Yes Kipper, you have hit the nail on the head. The R5 was "designed and built" by an "outside contractor" to Jaguar Racing, therefore, STR were able to purchase the rights to the car from that "contractor", which was NOT RBR or Jaguar Racing.

I see that Colin Kolles (Midland) is crying about the V10's again.

When you see what Toyota are doing with their V8, Midland ought to stop (female dog)ing about STR's V10's and get their own chassis sorted.

His latest was about the straightline speed advantage in sector 1, when just before that, Luizzi commented that he was losing out to the V8's with their faster straight-line speed.....

I think it's a case of say anything to take the eyes off the fact that the Midland chassis would be better at Crufts, than at an F1 race.

There are rumours abount that Aguri is talking to Lola about them building a car for them....

We like rumours, don't we.

What was the last one - Klien off on is bike? Look at RBR's Press Release to answer that one. Can't wait to see Prince Albert of Monaco in the car.

[Knowlesy]

I do wonder if Kolles has any idea what he is talking about at times...

[R59]

I honestly think that you could drop two plug leads off that Cosworth V10, and it'll still beat the Midland, simply because the Midland doesn't handle, the on-board footage, when you get a chance to see it, shows Albers and Monteiro fighting the car every inch of the way, while the old, errr I mean STR01 is fairly well behaved, considering the extra lump of weight behind the driver, and the year-old-plus design of the car.

I wonder how the STR02-Ferrari will work (or look like!!!) : opps, did I say Ferrari.....

Rob.

[DeoValente]

I dont understand why Monaco should be their best chance? That being a track where enginepower isnt important?

[Knowlesy]

Low down torque is vital at Monaco. The V10 has it in abundance!

[Adam43]

Torque.

Patrick Head says that Monaco is quite an important engine track as you rely on that to get out of all those slow corners where aero can't help you that much.

[R59]

There is no substitute for cubic inches!

[BootsOntheSide]

Exactly, engine power isn't important. Engine acceleration is important.

[Marbot]

Even so,i can't see any other team turning up at Monaco with last years chassis and a restricted V10.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by kipper

I'd heard the same; apparently the Jaguar F1 cars were made by the Ford Motor Company for tax reasons. Red Bull purchased the entity known as 'Jaguar Racing' and used what would have been the R5 last year, which were then handed over to Toro Rosso. They could do this for the rules state that each team must make their own car or use one produced by a body not racing in F1. As the Ford Motor Company have never directly held an entry to F1, this satisifies that requirement. This also explain why Aguri cannot use last year's BAR for although the ownership of the team has changed, the company is still the same and so BAR still counts as an exisiting F1 team in these terms.

It wouldve been the R6 actually, as Webber and Klien drove the R5 in 2004. But yes it did seem to be tax reasons rather than any percieved advantage they organised it that way.