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Old 28 Mar 2018, 21:05 (Ref:3811602)   #1
Hammerdown
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Hammerdown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The next Haas?

So Haas have seemingly shown that buying Ferrari bits is an effective way of getting into F1. Question is, does that mean others could follow the same route, and will any existing teams follow that path in order to compete. Would Williams or Force India buy Merc parts? Would Merc sell them? I know both Williams and Force India have always been outspoken against the idea, but when does reality bite and they have to change their view in order to be competitive? Surely Sauber would have been better off following that route, and one would imagine that they might next year. Red Bull and McLaren probably wouldn’t buy Renault bits and Torro Rosso are on their own. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Have F1 created a monster?
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Old 29 Mar 2018, 09:44 (Ref:3811714)   #2
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Depends what teams would benefit from doing it
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Old 29 Mar 2018, 14:40 (Ref:3811753)   #3
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Interesting Autosport Plus article by Jonathan Noble on this very matter.
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Old 29 Mar 2018, 14:56 (Ref:3811761)   #4
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dont have access to the article, but is Haas' success (potential success for their 3rd season) altogether different then what STR achieved by year 3 through its partnership/ with RBR?

STR scored a win that season as well....Haas still has a lot to do (and will need a lot of luck) to match STR's 3rd season.
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Old 29 Mar 2018, 21:36 (Ref:3811824)   #5
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NaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I insist: chassis manufacturers should be allowed to sell customer cars to private teams.

Why can't Andretti buy a McLaren, or HTP a Mercedes, or me a Ferrari?
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Old 30 Mar 2018, 02:45 (Ref:3811842)   #6
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In the old days it was possible to build a kit car and many did, what is the big deal about letting teams do that now and thus keeping costs down beats me. The constructer's championship? I bet a lot don't even know about it and could not care less and if it went the way of the Dodo then so be it.
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Old 30 Mar 2018, 02:56 (Ref:3811844)   #7
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In the old days it was possible to build a kit car and many did, what is the big deal about letting teams do that now and thus keeping costs down beats me, more cars on the grid wouldn't hurt things. The constructer's championship? I bet a lot don't even know about it and could not care less and if it went the way of the Dodo then so be it.
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Old 30 Mar 2018, 09:51 (Ref:3811887)   #8
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They Autosport article mentioned it works so well in MotoGP, so there's nothing wrong with what Haas are doing
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Old 30 Mar 2018, 15:26 (Ref:3811950)   #9
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Was done before 1982, could be done now. No need of that thing of the Concorde Agreement that forced each team to build its own chassis anymore.
The rules made a constructor championship for automakers, that ever played about the chassis builder, no matter which team got points for it...
It's very known several (little) F1 teams circumvented the ban customizing others' chassis and remaking it their own, like Osella actually did with several Alfa 183Ts before Rumi took control of the team in late 80s. Or Super Aguri, that is clearly another case. Or Little Art's team.
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Old 31 Mar 2018, 06:32 (Ref:3812057)   #10
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Where were Force India prior to their tech partnership with McLaren for 2008 season?

Good on HAAS
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Old 31 Mar 2018, 07:23 (Ref:3812061)   #11
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Where were Force India prior to their tech partnership with McLaren for 2008 season?

Good on HAAS
Force India were still technically known as Spyker-Ferrari prior to 2008.
Also they were Force India-Ferrari in 2008.
They switched to Mercedes engines with the McLaren tech tie up in an agreement signed very late in 2008 for 2009 on.
2009 was an ordinary year for them with 2 points finishes, before they picked up in 2010.

Last edited by E.B; 31 Mar 2018 at 07:29.
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Old 31 Mar 2018, 10:54 (Ref:3812098)   #12
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Force India were still technically known as Spyker-Ferrari prior to 2008.
Also they were Force India-Ferrari in 2008.
They switched to Mercedes engines with the McLaren tech tie up in an agreement signed very late in 2008 for 2009 on.
2009 was an ordinary year for them with 2 points finishes, before they picked up in 2010.
An established team with varying levels of success over the years in various guises were nowhere. They signed a tech/partnership with McLaren and within 12 months they grab a pole and podium. Not to mention the results Kimi took from Sutil.

James Key was probably the bigger variable as Sauber lifted their game when he was within their ranks.

If engines, gearboxes, hydraulics etc are all fair game...you have control ECUs...i dont see the fuss re sharing mech parts.

Good on HAAS, gutted Fernandez couldnt make Caterham work.
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Old 31 Mar 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3812103)   #13
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As a basic idea, I'd like to see teams at the rear (8th>10th), or a new team to the competition, be allowed to purchase one of the top three teams cars as they were raced during the final round of the previous year. Then develop it themselves over the current year.

This would be best for everyone concerned, and should produce better racing for the fans. The racing would be a little closer than what it is now and that's what the fans want.
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Old 1 Apr 2018, 12:22 (Ref:3812283)   #14
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Originally Posted by Hammerdown View Post
So Haas have seemingly shown that buying Ferrari bits is an effective way of getting into F1. Question is, does that mean others could follow the same route, and will any existing teams follow that path in order to compete. Would Williams or Force India buy Merc parts? Would Merc sell them? I know both Williams and Force India have always been outspoken against the idea, but when does reality bite and they have to change their view in order to be competitive? Surely Sauber would have been better off following that route, and one would imagine that they might next year. Red Bull and McLaren probably wouldn’t buy Renault bits and Torro Rosso are on their own. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Have F1 created a monster?
HAAS had a unique opportunity and basically they and Ferrari did a barter deal and a lot of people have forgotten that or simply are unaware of it. HAAS supplied Ferari with new CNC machinery and in return did the deal they have now. I doubt those circumstances will prevail again but nothing is certain in this world.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 03:43 (Ref:3812405)   #15
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HAAS had a unique opportunity and basically they and Ferrari did a barter deal and a lot of people have forgotten that or simply are unaware of it. HAAS supplied Ferari with new CNC machinery and in return did the deal they have now. I doubt those circumstances will prevail again but nothing is certain in this world.
Haas have taken the opportunity afforded to them by supplying their expertise/equipment to Ferrari, but the F1 community is underestimating the expertise and resources that Haas has. They are not a struggling minnow, they are just the new kid on the block. How successful they will be just depends on their motivation, or money they are ultimately prepared to dedicate to their ambitions, or the American interests they can bring in.
In short Haas are a big threat to the top teams, just look at how they are progressing, Ferrari help or not.
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