Is Vettel's career over?

[chillibowl]

Well im pretty bored so i prefer the whirlwind 48 hours narrative thank you very much!

[Akrapovic]

Mark Hughes name is on that article, which gives it some credit. He's pretty good. But I tend to take most things on The-Race with a grain of salt given the owners. I'd take motorsport.com over that, which is saying something.

Wouldn't be surprising if he's dropped. But Leclerc should take note.

[Aysedasi]

It reads as having more than just the ring of truth to me....

[djinvicta]

He's a goner from Ferrari..I see him in a revamped Minardi..
Disaster last year that showed his petulance..

[RWill2073]

Boy ferrari sure are good at killing great careers, aren't they? Good luck leclerc.... you're gonna need it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Boy ferrari sure are good at killing great careers, aren't they? Good luck leclerc.... you're gonna need it.

Some of it is of Vettel's own doing. He made some really crass mistakes/errors of judgement, that one wouldn't expect from a 4 in a row WDC.

[Akrapovic]

I think a lot of it is Vettels doing, for sure. But I do agree with the general stance. Ferrari have had Alonso and Vettel - previous champions - and didn't manage to get the title. They did with Kimi, but man there was a lot of luck in that.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I think a lot of it is Vettels doing, for sure. But I do agree with the general stance. Ferrari have had Alonso and Vettel - previous champions - and didn't manage to get the title. They did with Kimi, but man there was a lot of luck in that.

I think the fact they failed to win the title with either Alonso and Vettel, probably says more about Ferrari than it does about either driver.

[Aysedasi]

No 'probably' in that one, for me....

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

No 'probably' in that one, for me....

I was being tactful. There has to be something fundamentally wrong, when a team like Ferrari can't win either the WDC or WCC, with successive drivers, who have won 6 driver's championships between them. It's a bit embarrassing.

[chillibowl]

In fairness though, even Ferrari are being outspent and out staffed (in terms of employment hours) by Merc.

On another level i would also speculate their historical bonus , unique advertising structure, and car and apparel sales alters how Ferrari measure's success.

I believe recently they were named the world's strongest brand (different than most valuable) and that was achieved without an F1 title in over a decade.

Organizationally they may measure success differently then we as sports fans do.

[S griffin]

Ferrari have been caught napping and let things go, while Merc have just gone on with it. They can’t live on past glories anymore, they need a big change. They can get back up there, they just need to restructure things to some respectful level. They are a great name, but they are a bit of a mess at the moment and need to bring some pride back to the name

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

In fairness though, even Ferrari are being outspent and out staffed (in terms of employment hours) by Merc.

Where is this information from. This suggests it is close and the other way:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/12/26/...2018-part-two/

But maybe there is better/different time information especially as for some teams there may be speculation. ???

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Some of it is of Vettel's own doing. He made some really crass mistakes/errors of judgement, that one wouldn't expect from a 4 in a row WDC.

I will always view it as, whatever the fundamental issues going on in ferrari that caused them to fail with both Alonso and vettel, caused vettel to take on too much of it on himself, rightly or wrongly. He seemed to try to play race engineer, manager, and driver at the same time. Has to make it easier to make mistakes in that mindset. Always had the feel of a champion seeing how far away ferrari was from the team that brought him his titles and trying to lead the team to those heights himself. Not conducive to success at all.

Per dollar spent is ferrari the worst performing team? Almost seems that way.

Vettel seems very interested in the history of motorsport. I wonder if that would compel him to try le mans, indy, indycar series, or float around doing some combination of all of the above, so years from now, future f1 drivers will be standing trackside as old f1 drivers tun parade laps in some interesting historic cars... that Vettel drove back in the day? I remember how interested he was seeing martin brundle driving some historic f1 cars on the occasional f1 weekend. I hope he tries out a bunch of stuff without the pressure of chasing history.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I will always view it as, whatever the fundamental issues going on in ferrari that caused them to fail with both Alonso and vettel, caused vettel to take on too much of it on himself, rightly or wrongly. He seemed to try to play race engineer, manager, and driver at the same time. Has to make it easier to make mistakes in that mindset. Always had the feel of a champion seeing how far away ferrari was from the team that brought him his titles and trying to lead the team to those heights himself. Not conducive to success at all.

Per dollar spent is ferrari the worst performing team? Almost seems that way.

Vettel seems very interested in the history of motorsport. I wonder if that would compel him to try le mans, indy, indycar series, or float around doing some combination of all of the above, so years from now, future f1 drivers will be standing trackside as old f1 drivers tun parade laps in some interesting historic cars... that Vettel drove back in the day? I remember how interested he was seeing martin brundle driving some historic f1 cars on the occasional f1 weekend. I hope he tries out a bunch of stuff without the pressure of chasing history.

Great post.

Now that you mention Brundle, I think a Vettel/Brundle commentary combo would be fantastic.

[Akrapovic]

Really good post that mentions things I forgot about. There have been a few times where Vettel made tyre and pit stop calls, and you wonder why it's even up to him to make these calls.

Lewis questions the team a lot, but they're always in control.

[chunterer]

That's a great idea, Seb would be a fab addition to any broadcasting line up. Perhaps he could emulate Nico's drop ins across a season?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Even if he eventually went down the broadcasting road, would he want to do so, so soon? He's 32, 33 in July and Lewis is 35. I wouldn't have thought he was ready quit, just yet.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Where is this information from. This suggests it is close and the other way:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/12/26/...2018-part-two/

But maybe there is better/different time information especially as for some teams there may be speculation. ???

i suppose i can say things like Merc has the bigger secret engine and r&d budget but that feels a little to self serving. truthfully the information was coming from inside my head and quite rightly it looks to be outdated information at that.

i looked around for some 2019 budget info and every site i looked at is suggesting that Ferrari has had the advantage for the last couple of seasons now.

well and fairly pointed out sir.

[Adam43]

As you say it is not clear, which is why I was curious.

[chillibowl]

Seb does have a great sense of humour so would probably do well on a broadcast but as pointed out he is not old yet.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Even if he eventually went down the broadcasting road, would he want to do so, so soon? He's 32, 33 in July and Lewis is 35. I wouldn't have thought he was ready quit, just yet.

its kind of crazy how there does not seem to be a viable seat for him. is it just bad timing on his part or is there something else?

sometimes you wonder what the paddock knows/thinks and we dont.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Seb does have a great sense of humour so would probably do well on a broadcast but as pointed out he is not old yet.



its kind of crazy how there does not seem to be a viable seat for him. is it just bad timing on his part or is there something else?

sometimes you wonder what the paddock knows/thinks and we dont.

When I say wouldn't have thought he was ready quit, just yet, I don't just mean F1.

[Greem]

I'll just leave this here, noting that I've never met him so I can't offer an opinion either way. Seems sound though.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Seb does have a great sense of humour so would probably do well on a broadcast but as pointed out he is not old yet.

I think he would do well in broadcast.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

its kind of crazy how there does not seem to be a viable seat for him. is it just bad timing on his part or is there something else?

sometimes you wonder what the paddock knows/thinks and we dont.

My speculation is that it is a number of factors.

1. Teams are addicted to trying to find "the next great thing". Sometimes to their own determent. This happens to all teams. Bigger teams are looking to build dynasties similar to Schumacher at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes. So those top teams are looking for drivers on the front side of their career and not the backside.

2. Along with above, teams want harmony within their team. So two #1 drivers who don't create drama that hurts the team is rare. I also think teams are trending toward clear #1 + #2 situations. #1 is target for WDC and #2 is good enough to push for WCC. Where does Vettel fit into this sitation with a Mercedes or Red Bull? I don't see it working.

3. Drivers with significant experience and a taste of the top seem to not like to drop back down the field. Or if they are willing, may ask for significant salary which may not work for smaller teams. Exceptions exist such as Kimi as I think he remains for the love of the sport as much as he does it for the money. Vettel might fit the category, but time will tell. Same for Alonso. So far Alonso has either been holding out for the right team, or the right paycheck.

3. The above two issue are not particularly specific to Vettel. But this one is more about him. I would say that "most" fans would say he has had a rocky time recently and even appeared a bit desperate in his driving style. So confidence in him by team managers may be at an all time low.

With all of that being said, I think if Vettel was OK with driving for a non-top team, and reduced his salary demands to match the capabilities of those same teams, and showed enthusiasm to remain in the sport, that space would be made for him. But even the mid-field teams like the idea of finding "the next great thing" (especially on the cheap). So some of them may just like the idea of gambling on younger driver vs a prior WDC.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Greem

I'll just leave this here, noting that I've never met him so I can't offer an opinion either way. Seems sound though.

Awesome story.

Richard