Bell's Banter 2021

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by bauble

If they use that excuse, and get away with it, I think we shall soon see a few more people being put into hospital. The Verstappen incident was no accident but a carefully planned way of eliminating a rival.

Can't agree Bob, but certainly a mistake by Lewis.

[Peter Mallett]

Aaaargh!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Can't agree Bob, but certainly a mistake by Lewis.

Morny,
Taking about 10 seconds of Copse Corner, yes it could be just a racing accident,
however, if you put it in to context of Hamilton's burning desire to win his home GP, and the adulation of the fans that he loves, the superiority of Red Bull, as shown in the sprint race, and things looked bad for Lewis. so an attempt to pass on the inside of Copse, something most drivers seemed to think a no,no. and the conspiracy theory makes more sense. Lewis knows what he is doing, a multi World Champion. on a circuit he knows like the back of his hand accidentally hits Max's rear with his front! Bingo Job done.

[gary396]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Oh qawd, let's not have that discussion here as well.

Ditto!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bauble

the conspiracy theory

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by bauble

Morny,
Taking about 10 seconds of Copse Corner, yes it could be just a racing accident,
however, if you put it in to context of Hamilton's burning desire to win his home GP, and the adulation of the fans that he loves, the superiority of Red Bull, as shown in the sprint race, and things looked bad for Lewis. so an attempt to pass on the inside of Copse, something most drivers seemed to think a no,no. and the conspiracy theory makes more sense. Lewis knows what he is doing, a multi World Champion. on a circuit he knows like the back of his hand accidentally hits Max's rear with his front! Bingo Job done.

Damn!

That Hamilton bloke must be seriously talented to be able to hit a competitor at EXACTLY the right point to dislodge his tyre whilst travelling 180mph, having ZERO control over the competitors car and not causing himself serious damage so that he can continue and win the race. All at the same time as telepathically knowing that the race would be red flagged and know what penalty he was going to recieve so he knew the risk of 'taking out' his competitor would be worth it.

Tin Foil Hats engaged...conspiracy theory indeed.

I suppose this is a banter thread, so i suspect Bauble was joking...its the only logical explaination.

[midgetman]

I seem to have read somewhere:

"If you think 'he must be joking' then best assume he is"

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[justracing]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I seem to have read somewhere:

"If you think 'he must be joking' then best assume he is"

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

My thoughts exactly hence my original comment.

[S griffin]

Hey the Max/Lewis incident isn't the only thing happening in F1 you know

[midgetman]

True, and there's an Eff Wun forum to cover it.

But hey, what about Carraciola/Rosemeyer? That's turning into quite a ding dong.

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[bauble]

Originally Posted by midgetman

True, and there's an Eff Wun forum to cover it.

But hey, what about Carraciola/Rosemeyer? That's turning into quite a ding dong.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

"Get yourselves over to the Picture Puzzle, and demonstrate your grasp of Formula 1 history.

"I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows"

[justracing]

Originally Posted by midgetman

But hey, what about Carraciola/Rosemeyer? That's turning into quite a ding dong.

Now we're talking, having just finished reading Cristopher Hilton's excellent 'Nuvolari' - oh hang on wrong thread again?

[bauble]

Originally Posted by justracing

Now we're talking, having just finished reading Cristopher Hilton's excellent 'Nuvolari' - oh hang on wrong thread again?

No not really, it might not be Historic racing today, but it related to the type of cars we all love.

I always put Tazio/Juan Manuel/Stirling on the podum and let the rest sort themselves out.

With regard to the British GP events it could be interesting to look back at tome of the 'dirty tricks' of Formula 1 over the years, there are plenty of examples,

McLaren stealing Ferrari's design, Adelaide 1994 (?), Tyrell's lead balls in the petrol tank, even Ferraris use of oil to boost consumption.recently. Not exactly banter but could make for interesting discussion.

[Gerard C]

TYRRELL actually. Not Tyrell… Works with the crisps (look fo a T Model, Laurel and Hardy…).

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bauble

McLaren stealing Ferrari's design, Adelaide 1994 (?),

Bob, I think it was much later, in 2007-8, and more a Melbourne thing than Adelaide....

If we are on the same 'scandal'..... when in 2007, Mrs (wife of McLaren Designer Mike) Coughlan went into a Woking Photocopying shop and asked the clerk there (an unknown to her, an F1 maybe even a Ferrari fan), to copy almost 800 pages of official Ferrari F1 plans and drawings onto CD's..... before going home and having a bonfire with the papers to destroy the evidence....
Said clerk sent an email to Ferrari saying "Were you aware....."
And then it was
Quite a good account of what happened here:
https://www.wired.com/2008/05/ff-formulaone/

Not the first time an F1 car has been copied and then legally challenged though.... more in an era nearer our Historic racing category, the Arrows FA1 was basically a carbon copy of a Shadow DN9 and had similar legal wranglings back in 1978. I think it was Tony Southgate who designed both cars in what was deemed legally as a bit of a conflict of interests.

Of course another one was Renault ordering one of their cars to do a Singapore Sling into wall, and crash deliberately to facilitate the other Renault team driver's win of the race with a bizarre pitstop under the ensuing Safety Car.

And my pet peeve was everything had to be some sort of a gate..... Crashgate, Spygate etc.

[bauble]

Bob, I think it was much later, in 2007-8, and more a Melbourne thing than Adelaide....

Schumi won the WC in 1994/5 In Adelaide for the final race Schumacher accidentally bumped into Damon Hill causing both to retire, and leaving Schumi as World Champion. At the time a lot of people claimed it was no accident, but a deliberate manoeuvre to ensure he won the title. I seem to recall that many people reckoned that Senna deliberately took out Prost at Suzuka in 1990 to win the WC, and that Prost intentionally caused a collision between them at Suzuka in 1989.

Like the Renault episode its all nonsense dreamed up by conspiracy theorists, and to think I once was one of them.

[S griffin]

What happened in 2007-08 with McLaren and Ferrari was completely blown out of proportion. I'm just glad it calmed down in 08

Schumacher was a bit headstrong in his early days wasn't he? Accident or not, he shouldn't have closed the door on Hill, that will always leave a taint on those titles, great driver he was. He was still learning then. Senna's move wasn't really on either, he should have known. Prost in 89 was just rebuffing an risky move by Senna tbh

And what happened with the Renault episode is best left in the past, it's not something we look back on with pride

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bauble

Bob, I think it was much later, in 2007-8, and more a Melbourne thing than Adelaide....

Schumi won the WC in 1994/5 In Adelaide for the final race Schumacher accidentally bumped into Damon Hill causing both to retire, and leaving Schumi as World Champion. At the time a lot of people claimed it was no accident, but a deliberate manoeuvre to ensure he won the title. I seem to recall that many people reckoned that Senna deliberately took out Prost at Suzuka in 1990 to win the WC, and that Prost intentionally caused a collision between them at Suzuka in 1989.

Like the Renault episode its all nonsense dreamed up by conspiracy theorists, and to think I once was one of them.

Aha ok then I was on the wrong track.

I remember the Schu / Hill thing at Adelaide well. I threw my my Ferrari hat and T-shirt on a bonfire in protest and became more of a Damon fan! I seem to remember Williams refused to take things further with the FIA and did not want to win the Championship in a courtroom in the year Senna had died in one of their cars. Of course Schu did not render his credentials much good when he repeated the process a couple of years later with JV in Spain at the end of 1997.... he was DSQ'd from the WDC as a result, although ISTR he, I thought strangely at the time,kept his points wins etc.

Fortunately at that time the internet was not what it is today.... social media and all that would have loved it I am sure.

The Spygate/Stepneygate thing I was confusing your post with was of course something altogether different.

[Peter Mallett]

Wasn't Schumi with Benneton in 1994?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Wasn't Schumi with Benneton in 1994?

Indeed he was. On reflection I must have burnt the Ferrari stuff after the JV thing in 1997, and just became more a Damon fan after Adelaide.

Thanks for the correction.

I'll put that one down to a lapse of memory, a 'senior moment'!

[grantp]

Interesting to compare the past to the present.

As I recall (maybe erroneously?) Senna's remarkable drive at Donington included at some point a trip through the pits during which he did not actually stop. Ostensibly a tyre change on which there was a change of mind once he had committed to the pit lane.

With the Donington full circuit having Pit Lane access off the loop thereby being considerably shorter and the times being slowed by rain anyway, several seconds were saved. Or so I recall.

A similar tactic in FormulaE last weekend is now being frowned upon and results in disqualification. I suppose the near 30-year gap between events goes a long way to explain the change in attitudes. Plus the technology that allows measurement of things that were not as likely to be measured in earlier times.

[bauble]

There have always been 'dirty tricks' in motor racing, however, not all were underhand merely sneaky. Apparently when Fangio during his fantastic 1957 drive at the Nurburgring, when he chased down the two Ferraris of Hawthorn and Collins, Collins tried to hang on to Fangio. whereupon the Maserati drifted a little wide on one corner showering the Ferrari with loose stones from the verge. One stone cracked Collin's goggles causing him to drop back. Hawthorn said it was a trick from Juan's early days racing in South American road races.

In 1955 during the Spanish Grand Prix, Hawthorn was involved in a duel with Harry Schell, wishing to get on un-interrupted Mike used his knowledge of Harry to get rid of him. Approaching a slower corner he braked late, and waved Schell by, knowing he would not be able to resist the chance. Harry duly ended up amongst the straw bales, un-harmed but dealt with.

Dodgy passes, 'unfortunate accidents' are still with us.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by bauble

T Apparently when Fangio during his fantastic 1957 drive at the Nurburgring, when he chased down the two Ferraris of Hawthorn and Collins, Collins tried to hang on to Fangio. whereupon the Maserati drifted a little wide on one corner showering the Ferrari with loose stones from the verge. One stone cracked Collin's goggles causing him to drop back. Hawthorn said it was a trick from Juan's early days racing in South American road races.

Which is exactly how a certain Mr J Brabham earned his nickname! I confess this is the first time I've heard this story involving Juan Manuel employing dirty tricks, all the accounts and literature surrounding him are nothing but praiseworthy including Gerald Donaldson's wonderful biography of the great man 'Fangio the life behind the legend', I've always been an admirer. A long time back I was fortunate enough to acquire a limited edition, signed print of Fangio behind the wheel of a 250F which hangs over the fireplace.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by justracing

Which is exactly how a certain Mr J Brabham earned his nickname! I confess this is the first time I've heard this story involving Juan Manuel employing dirty tricks, all the accounts and literature surrounding him are nothing but praiseworthy including Gerald Donaldson's wonderful biography of the great man 'Fangio the life behind the legend', I've always been an admirer. A long time back I was fortunate enough to acquire a limited edition, signed print of Fangio behind the wheel of a 250F which hangs over the fireplace.

Quite right, Juan Manuel was a true sports man, and almost revered by Mike and Peter, the incident mentioned come from Hawthorn's book 'Challenge me the Race'. ( A very good book to read if you want to understand racing as it was back in the '50's)

I am proud to say I have shaken the great mans hand, and obtained his autograph.


Eat your heart out Justracing

[justracing]

Originally Posted by bauble

Quite right, Juan Manuel was a true sports man, and almost revered by Mike and Peter, the incident mentioned come from Hawthorn's book 'Challenge me the Race'. ( A very good book to read if you want to understand racing as it was back in the '50's)

I am proud to say I have shaken the great mans hand, and obtained his autograph.


Eat your heart out Justracing

I have read it but nevertheless pretty envious!