Jaguar WHY Formula E ?

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Moving to turbo is all part of euro efficiency laws where must have minimum economy across your whole range of cars manufactured, hence why Pirsche bought VW etc., and nothing to do with what they want to do m8

That's just the EU copying CAFE and the gas guzzler tax. CAFE since the late '70s had mandated that carmakers that sell vehicles in the US have to have an average of a certain MPG across their range or else they'd have to pay a sin tax on every vehicle sold that exceeded CAFE limits. That gets passed to customers in the form of the gas guzzler tax.

Europe and individual countries also do that for engines above a certain size, the so called "fiscal horsepower" tax, Japan has a car size class tax, etc. And I also believe that the EU and other countries also tax for carbon emissions, too.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Porsche owns VW, Audi, Skosa, Seat, Bentley, Bugatti etc.

VW owns Porsche, et al.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group

[peebee2]

Reverse takeover - Porsche bought VAG and then effectively changed the holding company

[bhtooefr]

Porsche SE (the holding company) owns Volkswagen AG, who owns Porsche AG (the car manufacturer).

Also, powertrains (motor(s), gearbox, inverter), cooling, and rear suspension (due to the mounting of the suspension) are almost completely open. Chassis, front suspension, aero, and battery are closed, although there's a competition to bid to make the next spec chassis and another one for the next spec battery.

As far as why Jaguar would do it, some of the powertrain development can inform their road car electrification efforts, but it'd mainly be marketing.

Budget for a season of FE is capped at $3.5M.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by bhtooefr

Porsche SE (the holding company) owns Volkswagen AG, who owns Porsche AG (the car manufacturer).

......

As far as why Jaguar would do it, some of the powertrain development can inform their road car electrification efforts, but it'd mainly be marketing.

Budget for a season of FE is capped at $3.5M.

Porsche SE has a little over 50% of the voting rights but less than 50% of the shares if I understand things correctly. However it and the Porsche manufacturing business are only connected via the VW ownership of Porsche AG.

Engineering wise I agree with your assessment - plus, conveniently, the Formula E base is at Donington Park which is relatively close to Jaguar's operations centre so quite effective if part of your aim is to get road car engineers involved at all levels.

Marketing at JLR has recently been quite female focused it seems. I have heard comments that the F-Pace has been developed with female users in mind, much like the LR Evoque.

On that basis easily accessed city centre racing in large cities around the world makes marketing and publicity sense, or so I would have thought, compared to distant, dedicated motor sport centres.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Moving to turbo is all part of euro efficiency laws where must have minimum economy across your whole range of cars manufactured, hence why Pirsche bought VW etc., and nothing to do with what they want to do m8

i really do get your point about turbos (direction driven by regulations), but in general what they want is irrelevant. It's not like they are of a single mind. For example the bean counter portion of the Porsche "brain" would be happy if they made a single widget that never changed and just raked in cash year after year while they continued to drive down production costs! And I do believe that corporations can have a bit of a soul (which is why we are fans of specific ones!), but in general what they "want", or rather must do, is to make a profit (shareholder value and all of that).

Do you think Porsche makes a bunch of SUVs because that is what they want? No, it is because they can make money at it. And nobody is forcing them to compete against Tesla (Porsche Mission E), but they feel it is important to do so. The point is that society as a whole drives the direction. Be it regulations, technical innovation, consumer tastes or where the marketplace is being pushed by competitors.

Richard

[chernaudi]

True that no one's holding a gun to Porsche management's head, but they sure do like the profits that their SUVs and other cars that supplement production of the 911 get them at the end of the day.

Private sector companies are driven by profits, the more they make, the better and the happier that any stakeholders, public or private, will be.

[grantp]

While this subject it current ....

The New Season test days kick off this week with 2 days at Donington Park.

http://www.donington-park.co.uk/news...ula-e-testing/

24th and 25th.

Advanced tickets (free) to be ordered before the event.

£5 for a pit walkabout payable on the day for those who are interested.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

True that no one's holding a gun to Porsche management's head, but they sure do like the profits that their SUVs and other cars that supplement production of the 911 get them at the end of the day.

Private sector companies are driven by profits, the more they make, the better the happier that any stakeholders, public or private, will be.

So that is a good point I missed. Hold your nose and make SUVs, but it does allow the "soul" to shine through to survive and make cars that harken back to the roots of the company (911, Boxster, Cayman, etc.) as well as participate in motorsports (depending upon your view if that is money well spent).

Richard

[Number4]

In the UK Formula E has been dropped from free to air ITV due to poor ratings. Neither will the race return to London.

[Number4]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

So that is a good point I missed. Hold your nose and make SUVs, but it does allow the "soul" to shine through to survive and make cars that harken back to the roots of the company (911, Boxster, Cayman, etc.) as well as participate in motorsports (depending upon your view if that is money well spent).

Richard

Here in Windsor, out of every 10 cars, one is a Mini, one is a Fiat 500, and one is either an Audi, Land Rover, Mercedes, Porsche, or VW SUV. The ladies in the new Jaguar F-Paces look awfully proud of themselves.

[chernaudi]

And that's why diesels and hybrids are mainstream, and why most car makers focus on small family cars (sedans and hatchbacks) and SUVs. There's good evidence that people want them.

To the subject at hand (whatever that is), Formula E is fairly inexpensive for a professional racing series, and I'm sure that electric cars are in theory a good idea. However, FE also shows why they won't be in vogue for quite a while. The FE cars are slow and have very limited range. Problems common with electric road cars and why such electrical systems are mated to some form of generator powered by an ICE.

[Mark0994]

If Jaguar won't to make GT car they could at least give more support to Emil Frey since that XK is very fast car.

[Bob Baldwin]

Sure would like to see it run herein the USA . Though is it even Homolagated ?

[Mark0994]

I think that XK have G3 homologation (not GT3)

[TF110]

There was questions whether they would do the XK next year or maybe their own F type. I think it was a DSC piece.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

FE cars are slow and have very limited range. Problems common with electric road cars and why such electrical systems are mated to some form of generator powered by an ICE.

The BYD e6 isn't cheap or fast, but it's perfectly reasonable as a city car.

[chernaudi]

Problem is that outside of city range, the electric car has a long way to go as far as endurance without the assistance of an ICE.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Problem is that outside of city range, the electric car has a long way to go as far as endurance without the assistance of an ICE.

It does, but Tesla is closing that gap at a hell of a pace. It's not anywhere near as good on distance as an ICE engine yet, and charge times are still too high. But considering the improvements made in the last 10 years, the rate of development is remarkable.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TF110

There was questions whether they would do the XK next year or maybe their own F type. I think it was a DSC piece.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/emi...ar-f-type-gt3/

[chernaudi]

Development of hybrids and development of forced induction ICE engines since they've been revisited has also been remarkably quick the past few years. But I do fear that a problem may come as with so many other things, including stuff in racing like the WEC, of where to go from here, because things tend to plateau and the next leap might be a quantum leap. But that quantum leap will be unattainable in the near future because of financial, economic, and technical barriers.

Basically, things become so good and sound that the next advance will be more a subtle evolution as opposed to a huge jump. And running into these barriers often happens after a lot rapid progress, too.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Number4

In the UK Formula E has been dropped from free to air ITV due to poor ratings. Neither will the race return to London.

There will definitely be a race in the UK, even if not London.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by sceptic

There will definitely be a race in the UK, even if not London.

I wouldn't bet on it.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

...is a sign of your mindset (no offense intended) and an indication as to why you likely don't understand the appeal or why various manufactures do devote a significant amount of money into this type of thing. Alternative energy and its impact to automobiles is real and not a "fringe" thing. I am not saying I don't enjoy all of the goodness of classic internal combustion engines. I very much do! But unless we want Motorsports to become obsolete we need to find ways to adapt and survive. Formula E is a real toe in the water approach for a full electric series.

Richard

Well said. Thank you.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Now, we'd kill for those prices.

Seems like we never stopped. You hit the nail on the head for the appeal of alternatives for many.