End Caps

[zefarelly]

On a ford 4 cyl block, the 'michael rodent' end caps on early precrossflow blocks are prone to breaking under high revs/load, the later square type are better, square steel ones best (I think)

having just had a block line bored with these I have been told that square ones are not eligible for FiA historics

someone suggested some fancy Swiss cast iron ones at £500 a set, but quite frankly thats totally out of the question.

could I safely modify or make some steel ones to look like standard cast iron ones or would this inherently weaken them (I dont think so)

or does anyone have any bright ideas, without remortgaging the house ?

thanks
Joe

[Cryos]

Hmmm,

Im not sure if you can modify them as it would not be the cars original "As Manufacture" part. You should try and get a hold of someone in the FIA or the RAC

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by zefarelly
could I safely modify or make some steel ones to look like standard cast iron ones or would this inherently weaken them (I dont think so)

Steel should be stronger than a similar-shaped cast iron component; easily detectable, though.......

[zefarelly]

Thanks for that guys, Dave, I was thinking about blasting them to give the impression of being cast, I dont think the scrutineers are that knowlegeable/strict engineering wise???

the FiA homologation papers say and I quote " heavy duty end caps"

now Im no linguist, but thats fairly vague and open to interpretation/debate

[KC]

Just what are "end caps" and what do they do?

[zefarelly]

they are caps bolted to the block to hold the crank in . . . . and also help make the block a little more rigid

no rocket science invloved really, they just need to be strong, but when the rules are vague with regards to modifications and the standard items are as tough as a French soldier I want to be sure before making any mods.

[KC]

Duhh! I should have figured it out. We always called them main caps. You might be able to shot blast them to simulate a casting, but you would also need to radius all the sharp edges on the bottom side to make it look more like a casting. It would not hurt to shot blast them anyway as it works to stress relieve the material after machining. We do the main caps and rods this way.

It seems kind of self defeating to insist that main caps (end caps) be of an inferior design. This only promotes more engine failures and can lead to less guys racing in my opinion. I would understand if you make rules to keep things historic, like drum brakes instead of discs, or manual spark advance instead of vacuum advance, etc. But making your lower end bullet proof keeps you on the track and at the races instead trying to sell your car because you can't keep a motor together in it.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by zefarelly
Thanks for that guys, Dave, I was thinking about blasting them to give the impression of being cast, I dont think the scrutineers are that knowlegeable/strict engineering wise???

Shot blasting would give a rough surface, but, as KC has said, you'd have to modify the shape to give the appearance of a casting & even then, the surface colour would be different; even if the appearance could be made identical, one stroke of a file will show the difference!

As for scroots.....they are all-seeing, all-knowing, aren't they?

[Red Dog]

Zefarelly,
How often do the iron caps break?
Are you actually gaining an advantage over your competitors by running steel caps?
How likely is it that your motor will be protested/stripped for inspection? Probably won't happen unless you win or upset someone badly!
If the caps really are a weak point then you might find some of the others are running steel anyway (by mistake, of course!)
What revs are you going to limit yourself to?

[zefarelly]

Ive never broken one, but people mention it all the time, I think its mainly the centre cap that goes, if the crank flexes . . . .and I'd suggest anything over 6500 continuously would do it . . . .Ive had chats with various people who have said the big end does let go if you run too high or blip past 8k regularly, given my budget, and the scarcity of some parts, I cant afford to be blowing things up too often . . . .equally I dont want to keep it down and come last !

the Lotu TC guys either use something very expensive or use a steel centre cap. as a safety precaution.

I guess I'll do whats safest, and If I get hauled over for it, Ill worry about it then . . .theres certainly no performance gain to be had, if anything the reverse as the steel caps are bigger and heavier !

[mark_l]

I wouldn't bet on the scrutineers being unknowledgable.

Don't start crying if you get caught

[Red Dog]

6500 is not many revs. I expect that the reason the caps break is because they are badly installed or they have an undetected weakness - a crack or stress riser. Cranks should always be crack tested and while you're at it get the rods and caps done. If you clean off all the stress risers from the rods and the mains caps (sharp corners, notches etc) you will really reduce the chances of failure. You will need to have the parts rebalanced if you take metal off (static).

The standard mod for any race engine mains caps was to add a steel strap across the bottom. Is that specifically excluded?

BTW shot blasting is different from shot peening. Shot peening is the procedure for strengthening the part - shot blasting for removing scale.

Have you asked other competitors what they do?

[zefarelly]

most people wont divulge whats inside, probably because its not strictly speaking legal . . . .I'm not going to be winning anything so I doubt I'll get ripped to shreds every meet, but morally I wont cheat. having said that I'll gladly reinterpret the rules to make sure I can get a reasonable life out of my engine, If it goes bang Im stuffed until I can find the cash for another one.

Ive heard of strapping, although Im not entirely sure what/how to do it. I'd assume something over the bottom of the cap to stop it moving anywhere.

having said all that, building my own stuff and developing my own car, its all going to be a bit of trial and error.

best apply for another bank loan now !

[Ralph Nader]

Don't try strapping the main caps, it makes them weaker. Cheapest solution is higher ratio diff and rev limiter. And spend the change on driver tuition!!

[THR]

hmmm
i think in the interests of safety u should upgrade them

of course not strictly ok, but regs are vauge so not too bad, you could agru it completley.

if they are they unreliable then change um,
but then if you over rev any engine for a while, then summin gotta break!!

[tangoed sparky]

Can you get in touch with a scruterneer through your club or the msa? or is it best to not draw attention to the issue. Just a thought.

[Onlooker]

Speak to a foundry and see if you can get some cast out of a better grade CI???? or steel for that matter.If they look cast the scutineers probally wont go near them.You know the saying "Looks like a duck,quacks like a duck-probally is a duck".They would be able to make them slightly strongher by adding material in a few criitcal places also. You may be able to get a few competitors to buy a set as well to reduce the cost.Equally an engine builder in the class may be interested in getting a few.

Maybe heat treatment etc.Failing that getting some crack testing done on a regular basis.Are you allowed to get the components better balanced to reduce the load?

Your only cheating if your coaght anyway

[zefarelly]

It would appear that some posh Swiss company make rediculously expensive ones (£100 each !!!) I got a set of steel ones on Ebay for £50, the rules are hideously vague and I wont be winning anything, but I cant afford to rebuild my engine too regularly

I think most people have non original typess, purely for safety and reliability, it has no direct effect on performance, bit of a stupid rule if you ask me.

[ianselva]

If they have already been machined they will be no good as they need to be line bored to your block. Any worthwhile engine builder can supply them.

[zefarelly]

they havent, but have now, with an ARP stud kit. I think they where just new old stock . . . .and at half price, good enough for me.

[ianselva]

I don't think you should underestimate the scrutineers though at International level , when I was last at Monza the winner got disqualified because he had titanium valve caps instead of steel.

[Red Dog]

Have you called the championship technical person/eligibility scrutineer and asked what the accepted position is?

[Onlooker]

Originally posted by ianselva
I don't think you should underestimate the scrutineers though at International level , when I was last at Monza the winner got disqualified because he had titanium valve caps instead of steel.

Titamium Caps whilst not only are they easy to check but they are also visible when other tasks are being done like say cam lift or compresion ratio.I would bet on hearing a scrutineer tell every one to have their rocker covers off for a top end check sooner than asking to have engines out and sumps off.

[zefarelly]

the same goes for roller rockers, lightened pushrods etc . . .lightened valve train has a marked effect in performance and engine acceleration, dead easy to spot as well without major surgery!

[GolddustMini]

if your having problems with end caps your clearly doing something seriously wrong, i assume we are talking kent engine here???

in standard ff1600 cam config (as per historics and any other kent series) the cam must remain the GT type and as such runs out of breathe past about 6k, so theres no point taking it that high, theres no power up there thats for sure, so you'd be better to run different gearing and make use of the bulgy bit of the power and torque curve before they go down again. if you and your mates keep blipping it to 8k then consider-
a) lessons in using a gear leaver to prevent over revs on the downshift
b) a rev limitter (also know as a nice bit of common sense..) to prevent taking it to 8k,

it impresses absolutely no one in the paddock when someone sits there flogging the bolarks off there engine before/after the race...



i was of the understanding that any kent crossflow engine is the same for ff, i.e the engine regs are the same, i may be wrong but cant you just uses a later block with the better main caps fitted as standard?