Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Motorsport History

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 31 Dec 2009, 13:07 (Ref:2606759)   #26
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
I think the Muldoon Cosworth may have been entered by 'Auto Parts International', who seem to have been his regular rally sponsor- they're mentioned in this piece on the 1987 Swedish Rally from Australian newspaper 'The Age'.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4121,3770780

Thanks for confirming it was a rally car though-I know we'd speculated whether it was a rally machine or a prodsaloon, but couldn't remember if we'd ever resolved it. I wonder if it was his regular car, or hired for the one event- most of the references I can find so far to him rallying a Sierra mention a Group N XR4x4, rather than a Group A Cosworth...

I'll have a look back through the other recent posts and see what else I can add- I'll try to dig out the article on the Karl Jones Duckhams Escort to see if that adds anything

Happy New Year
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2009, 13:22 (Ref:2606768)   #27
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,722
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by R59 View Post
5./ #3 / Graham Scarborough / unknown / A / Rover Vitesse / 15 laps / 28m00.74s

Seeing entries like this, Skid was running a Martin Thomas car IIRC.
There are a few "unknown" against Rover Vitesse entries, and they look like Martin Thomas jobbies too.
Yes that's right R59, as researched to great length in the Rover thread, Skid's car was a Martin Thomas machine, originally built in 1983 for Gordon Spice and then run for several years by Neil McGrath.

Dennis Leech's original car was also Thomas run, but we're not sure if his ex TWR chassis was in play by 1987, highly likely it was as his performances were much stonger against people like Rouse, suggesting he had newer equipment at his disposal.
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2009, 13:49 (Ref:2606781)   #28
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Mike O’Brien was also out to see some action with historic racer Chris Aylett joining the fray with the David Brodie Mitsubishi Starion, so far only seen at the GP support race in July.
Jesper
Chris Aylett usually ran a Chevron in the HSCC Historic GT series.

From what I've read recently on the Autosport Nostalgia forum, the HSCC series was on the programme for Silverstone, but their race was cancelled after the death of John Foulston while testing at Silverstone a week or so before (He both competed in and sponsored the HSCC series)
Apparently, as Aylett's sponsors were due to have a lot of guests at Silverstone, with his own race dropped, he hired the Starion from Brodie to do the BTCC race instead.
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jan 2010, 19:19 (Ref:2607122)   #29
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Round 10 – August 22nd 1987, Oulton Park

Finally class D had three entries with Chris Hodgetts and Tiff Needell sharing both CHMS Corollas, the idea being to swap cars during their mid way pit stop. If plans should fail Win Percy was also qualified for both entries. Final contender was Geoff Kimber-Smith who had Garry Marshall along.

Grid:

10.#66? Chris Hodgetts/Tiff Needell, 1:50.4 – class D pole (Win Percy DNS)
11.#67? Tiff Needell/Chris Hodgetts, 1:51.2 (Win Percy DNS)

In the CHMS Corolla started by Tiff Needell Chris Hodgetts thus finished an excellent third overall while Needell fought increasingly worn rain tyres on the second team car to finish fifth overall, sandwiching the Scarborough/Abbott Rover in forth. Gerry Marshall was also mixing it with the two CHMS Corollas, but later faded and eventually ended ninth.

The result assured Chris Hodgetts of the 1987 title leaving Mark Hales second from Dennis Leech and a number of other.
Result:
3./ #66? / Hodgetts, Needell / Hodgetts / D / Toyota Corolla GT / 30 laps / 61m09.8s – fastest class D lap by unknown driver
4./ #3 / Scarborough, Abbott / unknown / A / Rover Vitesse / 29 laps
5./ #67? / Needell, Hodgetts / Hodgetts / D / Toyota Corolla GT / 29 laps
Tiff Needell's version of events, from an Autosport article in December '87 about the TOM'S GB fwd Corolla project that debuted that year- It included some comparison of the TOM'S car and the CHMS rwd Corolla- Tiff having raced both versions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autosport 31/12/87
'...my only victory came in the opposition's GT Coupe when Chris decided to run two cars for two drivers in a two-driver, 30 lap race around Oulton Park! With a compulsory driver change, and his championship secure, Chris decided to have a bit of fun. We qualified his two cars first and second in class -10th and 11th overall and qualified Win Percy as a reserve (in case the masterplan went wrong) as Win was doing the first half of the race in Graham Goode's Sierra.
With three-way radio between myself, Chris and Dave Lampitt, we planned to run 10 laps nose-to-tail and then dive into the pits to swap cars- Simple as long as we could stay nose-to-tail! Gerry Marshall tried to spoil our fun, as I got in front at the start and he slotted in behind me in Geoff Kimber-Smith's GT Coupe. After some fairly frantic action, Chris made it past Gerry and we pulled out some breathing space to put the plan back on target
There was, however, a joker in the pack, as we had both started on wets and the track was rapidly drying...
Now the team was only kitted out with one set of air guns- which could easily service two cars pitting on different laps, but not two together. After much radio chatter, it was decided Chris would lead in and drive past our pit, while I would stop to have slicks put on my car- Unfortunately it wouldn't be mine after the driver change! Against all odds, the pitstop routine went exactly to plan and I led the class for half-a-dozen laps before Chris came piling past on his slicks (or my slicks!). First and second in class was in the bag, and Chris stormed forwards to take Needell and Hodgetts to an excellent third overall, while I slithered Hodgetts and Needell home in fifth- I'm not sure how many championship points they gave us, but we certainly had a bit of fun!'


I think, but won't swear that the class win went to Hodgetts' regular white #66 car. There was a pic of the #67 car (the red ex-Alan Minshaw 'Demon Tweeks' car) in the Corolla thread, but it no longer seems to be there. (think it was originally posted by Gregor Marshall, along with pics of his father in the Kimber-Smith Corolla at the same race)

Last edited by KA; 1 Jan 2010 at 19:26.
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jan 2010, 19:34 (Ref:2607133)   #30
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Yes that's right R59, as researched to great length in the Rover thread, Skid's car was a Martin Thomas machine, originally built in 1983 for Gordon Spice and then run for several years by Neil McGrath.
IIRC, Skid's car was always entered under the name of his longtime sponsor Letchworth Roofing
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jan 2010, 21:06 (Ref:2607153)   #31
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,722
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
IIRC, Skid's car was always entered under the name of his longtime sponsor Letchworth Roofing
Yes that sounds right, although Martin prep'd many Rovers in the 80's they weren't actually entered by him.
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 3 Jan 2010, 13:42 (Ref:2607637)   #32
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Yes that sounds right, although Martin prep'd many Rovers in the 80's they weren't actually entered by him.
Could or did Graham Scarborough run his own team for the 1987 BTCC then?

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Jan 2010, 14:31 (Ref:2607651)   #33
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,651
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Could or did Graham Scarborough run his own team for the 1987 BTCC then?

Jesper
I'm pretty sure he did, and compared to many others competing at the time, it was a pretty low-key affair. (I say that not out of dis-respect to the team, but out of great respect to the team!).
VIVA GT is offline  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 3 Jan 2010, 16:29 (Ref:2607677)   #34
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
1987 points and class reviews

Point distribution according to 9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 points for the top-6 finishers in each class depending of a minimum of four starters. 6, 4, 3 points for the top-3 finisher if three starters were present and 4, 3 points if two starters were presents. 0 points if one or less starters were present. 1 bonus point for fastest lap in each lap.
The best nine scores from twelve races will count towards the championship. This is a far as I can deduce the points regulations and how to decide the championship. I'm swimming in murky waters regarding drivers scoring in different classes could transfer their points for overall position and if there were a registration of BTCC drivers and non registrated drivers receiving no points for their effort.

1987 Class A review:
Close fought championship among newcomer Tim Harvey and old hand Dennis Leech winning all four Rover victories betwin them. Harvey showed speed from the very first go winning three races within the first seven rounds but also had his share of technical issues and loosing out with a bit of over excuberance on a few occasions. Leech on the other hand was solid throughout the year and showed a lot of feistiness throughout. A gardening accident early on and the final round exit into the new woodcote gravel pit proved very costly. David Carvell and Graham Scarborough was never far from the two top Rover men but ultimately failed in winning races. Carvell was very much on the pace in the early rounds, but DNFs in the second half did cost him a likely third in class. Scarborough came on strong in the second half of the year, but at a time the new evolution Sierra had arrived restrickting ”Skid” to a single podium finish.
Despite only starting half the rounds Andy Rouse still managed third in class and top Ford Sierra runner. Notably he and Rouse' GP support stand-in Win Percy were the only Sierra drivers to win races before the new RS500 evolution arrived in August. Graham Goode in his own car and Pete Hall in the second Rouse car was usually second tier runners through most of the year, but then at Donington in August he was class winner in the new RS500 only to loose the car in a huge crash before the TT a few weeks later. Pete Hall seemed to be a bit out of his depth at times but came good at the Silverstone finale winning the race convincingly.
Mikes O'Brien and Newman made the Holden Commodore and BMW 635CSi races winners in 1987 too. The Alan Docking run Holden was late in arriving and only had the car set up properly well into the summer winning a nice victory at Snetterton. Newman participated in most rounds but never with intensions of outright succes. Thus his and Robert Speak's victory in the 1-hour 2-driver Oulton Park event was a surprise of the year thanks to the right tires in tricky wet and dry conditions.
Most other class A drivers were gridfillers in a variety of older or less delelopet group A cars or production saloons with one exception. At the Silverstone Grand Prix support race David Brodie brought his Mitsubishi Starion Turbo out and finished an excellent second. Historic race Chris Aylett then had a go in the same car only to retire without showing any of the same sort of speed.

Class A points:
1.Tim Harvey / 45 points / 12 starts
2.Dennis Leech / 43 (44) points / 11 starts
3.Andy Rouse / 35 points / 6 starts
4.Graham Goode / 34 points / 10 starts
5.David Carvell / 34 points / 12 starts
6.Pete Hall / 33 points / 12 starts
7.Mike O'Brien / 27 points / 10 starts
8.Mike Newman / 22 points / 10 starts
9.Graham Scarborough / 16 points / 12 starts
10.Win Percy / 10 points / 2 starts
11.Robert Speak / 9 points / 1 start
12.Jeff Allam / 7 points / 1 start
13.Dave Brodie / 6 points / 1 start
14.Lionel Abbott / 4 points / 1 start
15.? Innes / 3 points / 1 start
16.Brian Chatfield / 1 point / 3 starts
17.Rex Muldoon / 1 points / 1 start
Not classified
Graham Rose / 1 non-start
Bill Griffin / 2 starts
Mike Smith / 1 start
Jerry Mahony / 2 starts
Robb Gravett / 1 start
Dave Morgan / 1 start
David Leslie / 1 start
Gary Brabham / 1 start
Chris Aylett / 1 start

1987 Class B review:
Mark Hales had little trouble dominating this class for the first half of the season in his Terry Drury Escort winning the first five races on the trot. But competition hotted up with the new BMW M3 simply out of reach, but it was also at this point that Drury entered a second car for Lionel Wiffen to asure that a minimum number of starters were at hand. Alongsiden Wiffen this brought Hales a final victory. With class victory secured and second overall in the box too, Graham Hathaway took over the Hales car and won at the Silverstone finale. Karl Jones proved quick in a limited programme in the rival Asquith Escort RS Turbo, but had little to show for it in the end.
The two Alfa Romeo Dealer Team 75 Turbos proved quite troublesome, with Jon Dooley and Rob Kirby usually in close company as long as it lasted. Dooley kept the car running on most occations winning a couple of mid-season rounds while Kirby had a multitude of often turbo- or transmissions related retirements. For the GP support race he had a 2.5 V6 normally aspirated engine installed only to write the car off at the very next meeting at Brands Hatch.
Frank Sytner was clearly the class of the field and while his fellow class B contenders usually had fight with Chris Hodgetts and his class D Toyota, Frank ran with the top class A men, even winning the Donington August meeting overall adding another two class wins during a limited season. Another to run on a limited schedule was Kevin Eaton in the ex-Graham Goode Nissan Bluebird Turbo, but was usually well on the pace whenever he appeared.

Class B points:
1.Mark Hales / 51 points / 10 starts
2.Jon Dooley / 47 points / 10 starts
3.Frank Sytner / 32 points / 5 starts
4.Lionel Wiffen / 14 points / 4 starts
5.Kevin Eaton / 12 points / 5 starts
6.Rob Kirby / 10 points / 6 starts
7.Karl Jones / 6 points / 4 starts
Not classified
Graham Hathaway / 0 points / 1 start
Mike Smith / 0 points / 1 start
Phil Dowsett / 0 point / 0 starts

1987 Class C review:
A class with one genuine group A car among half a dusin Renault 5 GT Turbo cup cars and a pair of production saloons didn't do much for this new 1601-2000 cc class. Colin Pearcy won with his ex-Austin Rover Sport MG Metro Turbo, but only when he started to race the car regularly from midseason. He thus won six from his seven starts only loosing out to Roger Saunders at the Silverstone GP support race. Saunders had his Renault in a sort of Group A trim by then, winning his fifth and final race of the season seriously happered by only two of these had netted any points! For three races Saunders were lonely starter and thus no points gained. Of the rest only Alan Minshaw seemed to there for any other reason than being a grid filler. His VW Golf was still a production saloon GTI 16V while he had proper Group A car being build by Richard Lloyd.

Class C:
1.Colin Pearcy / 42 points / 7 starts
2.Roger Saunders / 28 points / 10 starts
3.Alan Minshaw / 14 points / 4 starts
4.Vic Lee / 4 points / 1 start
5.Alex Postan / 3 points / 1 start
5.Peter Gottlieb / 3 points / 1 start
5.Holman Blackburn / 3 points / 1 start
8.Paul Harmer / 2 points / 2 starts
9.David Grimshaw / 2 points / 2 starts
10.Niki Phillips / 1 point / 1 start
Not classified
Les Germain / 0 points / 3 starts
Anthony Pownall / 0 points / 1 start
David Kay / 0 points / 1 start
Paul Taft / 0 points / 0 starts

1987 Class D review:
Deserving champion for a second year running, Chris Hodgetts was the class of the field. Committed to a part time schedule of international events with Alex Moss, the CHMS team was kept busy running at both BTCC events and abroad on about a hand full of occasions. Nevertheless Chris would go on to win 10 from his 11 starts in his spectacular curb jumbing best. As a rare luxury he had the back-up of two team cars with a variety of drivers to bolster the sometimes lacking grid. At the first Thruxton race one the exstra cars were drafted in when Hodgetts crashed his regular car in a practice shunt and at the very next round, also at Thruxton, he suffered only his second defeat in two years with the Toyota Corolla.
Geoff Kimber-Smith was the proud achiever of this feat, but had to settle for second on most occasions in his self run Corolla. Phil Dowsett gave the North Essex Racing Ford Escort RS1600i a handfull of goes throughout the season netting him a somewhat lucky third in class. Not even when Patrick Watts had a sole run in the car he could bring more than third and last. Richard Belcher and Mark Goddard had good sole runs in the second Escort brought out by Alan Gaunt, Goddard finishing a fine second in the Silverstone finale.
Tiff Needell was unlucky not to add a second victory as co-driver to Chris Hodgetts in the 1-hour Oulton Park race. At the GP support race he debuted a Japanese spec FWD Toyota Corolla but a lack of proper set-up kept him from challenging Chris Hodgetts for victory. Technical issues kept him from away from victory lane in his two other starts in the boxy little Corolla, but would have been welcome on a full time scale. Tony Crudgington also ended as a part-timer but well off the pace of the leading Toyotas in his private effort while no other than eight different drivers, including Tiff Needell, had guest appearences with the CHMS team. Besides the Needell victory mentioned above, class B champion Mark Hales made it 11 CHMS victories from 12 races with a win at the Silverstone finale. For the remaining six drivers they were mainly there to make up numbers to assure Chris Hodgetts of a fighting chance from the start of the season.

Class D:
1.Chris Hodgetts / 78 (90) points / 10 starts
2.Geoff Kimber-Smith / 48 points / 10 starts
3.Phil Dowsett / 16 points / 5 starts
4.Tiff Needell / 15 points / 4 starts
5.Mark Hales / 10 points / 1 start
6.Tony Crudgington / 8 points / 4 starts
7.Paul Longfield / 7 points / 2 starts
8.Alan Minshaw / 6 points / 1 start
8.Mark Goddard / 6 points / 1 start
10.Alex Moss / 6 points / 2 starts
11.Chuck Nicholson / 4 points / 1 start
12.Will Hoy / 4 points / 1 start
12.Tony Dron / 4 points / 1 start
14.Patrick Watts / 3 points / 1 start
14.Gerry Marshall / 3 points / 1 start
14.Richard Belcher / 3 points / 1 start
17.Keith Norman / 2 points / 1 start

Note on class B: Graham Hathaway seems to have been a non-scorer for his victory at the Silverstone finale. When I'm moving all other finishers up the points seems to fit with the BTCC page.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 4 Jan 2010, 22:49 (Ref:2608193)   #35
R59
Veteran
 
R59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Heard and McDonald Islands
Bedfordshire
Posts: 3,523
R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Yes that sounds right, although Martin prep'd many Rovers in the 80's they weren't actually entered by him.
Knowing Martin, he would have been too tight to pay for an entrant's licence!!
R59 is offline  
__________________
There is no substitute for cubic inches. Harry Belamonte - 403ci Vauxhall Belmont!!
A 700hp wayward shopping trolley on steroids!!
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2010, 12:37 (Ref:2608402)   #36
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You know him well!
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 6 Jan 2010, 20:11 (Ref:2609069)   #37
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Round 10 – August 22nd 1987, Oulton Park

1 hour or 30 laps? Rolling start

The Rovers were down to the usually seen four cars with class A points leader Dennis Leech being joined by ? Innes....while Tim Harvey would have current Ecosse C2-driver David Leslie as driving partner. David Carvell brought Jeff Allam in for a rare '87 race in the car Allam raced at Bathurst '84, while Graham Scarborough had enlisted the service of Lionel Abbott.
I've been trying to think who Dennis Leech's co-driver might have been- I have a suspicion that what we might be dealing with is an Autosport misprint here.....

My notes suggest it might actually have been Karl Jones (the Asquith/Duckhams Escort was certainly missing at Oulton) but I don't know the origin for this idea- possibly the Motoring News race report, which I may no longer have. I'll investigate further.....
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jan 2010, 20:49 (Ref:2609096)   #38
Tim Wilkinson
Veteran
 
Tim Wilkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 782
Tim Wilkinson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Autosport the week before the race says that Leech was planning to team up with Karl Jones.
Tim Wilkinson is offline  
__________________
If you want to get a hat, get a head.
Quote
Old 6 Jan 2010, 21:37 (Ref:2609122)   #39
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson View Post
The Autosport the week before the race says that Leech was planning to team up with Karl Jones.
Looked up that bit, which does seems as a likely candidate. Thank you, Tim and KA, for giving the question a bit of consideration.

The Autosport preview list Tim Harvey with Rod Birley, but David Leslie ended up sharing with Harvey.
..and guess what, the Tom Walkinshaw Holden was rumoured to be entered too

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2010, 08:56 (Ref:2609303)   #40
VIVA GT
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 5,651
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Looked up that bit, which does seems as a likely candidate. Thank you, Tim and KA, for giving the question a bit of consideration.

The Autosport preview list Tim Harvey with Rod Birley, but David Leslie ended up sharing with Harvey.
..and guess what, the Tom Walkinshaw Holden was rumoured to be entered too

Jesper
Well done chaps! I'm sure you're right that Karl Jones shared the Rover with Dennis Leech.
David Leslie also did share the Rover with Tim Harvey. IIRC the connection would be that they shared a C2 Spice (also sponsored by Istel, and run by John Maguire Racing) in the British Sports Car Championship that year too.
VIVA GT is offline  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2010, 16:28 (Ref:2609561)   #41
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
Well done chaps! I'm sure you're right that Karl Jones shared the Rover with Dennis Leech.
David Leslie also did share the Rover with Tim Harvey. IIRC the connection would be that they shared a C2 Spice (also sponsored by Istel, and run by John Maguire Racing) in the British Sports Car Championship that year too.
The Harvey-Leslie-Istel-Spice might have been 1989, as I remember Harvey raced this car at the Silverstone German Super Cup round that year. Didn't know that Maguire was involved in that project, but it's wonderfull to learn about such details!

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2010, 17:19 (Ref:2609581)   #42
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
The Harvey-Leslie-Istel-Spice might have been 1989, as I remember Harvey raced this car at the Silverstone German Super Cup round that year. Didn't know that Maguire was involved in that project, but it's wonderfull to learn about such details!

Jesper
Yes, the Spice was 1989. Tim appeared in a couple of Istel-backed sportscars in the British C2 series.

He started with a Tiga in 1988, powered by a 3-litre Rover V64V (ie the 6R4 engine), sharing with Chris Hodgetts. 'Team Istel' also appeared in at least a couple of World Championship races (Silverstone and Le Mans) though this was in a different Tiga, the Porsche-powered Charles Ivey Racing example- they did use the Tiga-Rover as a T-Car at Silverstone IIRC

He upgraded to a new Spice-Cosworth for 1989, and dominated the championship, winning all 7 rounds, sharing the car with Duncan Bain and Labatt's RS500 teammate Laurence Bristow- As you said, they also did the Supercup race at Silverstone, though I don't think they took in any of the World Championship rounds, Harvey drove a works C1 Spice in a couple of late-season races
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Jan 2010, 10:22 (Ref:2610378)   #43
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Found this to be a usefull link: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...=lionel+wiffen

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Jan 2010, 14:25 (Ref:2610504)   #44
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
Going back to the question of Tim Harvey's sponsors, note the presence of 'Sumo Giants' as a sponsor rather than 'Istel' at this early-season race.

I won't swear to this, but I've got a very vague memory that the story behind it was that Sumo Giants might have been a band- one of Tim's mates or someone connected to the TDR team being either a member of the band or their manager, and got their name on the car for a bit of publicity...
Anyone know any more- think there was a pic of the car in Autosport with a caption telling the story?
This should be Sumo Giants in the 1980s according to the info:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnzOadz-ocQ

Tried to look them up on the otherwise very usefull All Music Guide/AMG, but found nothing, so not a new Beatles, but at least Harvey and the band seems to have shared the hair-do!

I think Istel sponsored Tim Harvey during his 1986 Formula Ford days, which likely account for his Istel backing on the prod saloon Sierra in 1987 and makes perfect sence on the BTCC Vitesse.
The 1986 TT winning Vitesse of Jeff Allam and Denny Hulme actually carried Istel backing as well.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Jan 2010, 16:14 (Ref:2610538)   #45
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post

I think Istel sponsored Tim Harvey during his 1986 Formula Ford days, which likely account for his Istel backing on the prod saloon Sierra in 1987 and makes perfect sence on the BTCC Vitesse.
The 1986 TT winning Vitesse of Jeff Allam and Denny Hulme actually carried Istel backing as well.

Jesper
Yes, now you mention it, I'm sure I remember Istel backing Harvey's works Quest in FF1600 as well- I think they were 'the sponsorship required to return to single seaters'
mentioned in this profile
http://www.supertouring.co.uk/drivers/tim_harvey.html
as they also backed the Rover Prodsaloon drive. I'm trying to think who his team-mate was in the production Rover- I'm sure was definitely a 2-car team, though plans were messed up when Tim broke his ankles in an FF shunt. Possibly Bristow, but I'm sure a couple of other drivers appeared.

As you said, Istel sponsored the Allam/Hulme TWR Rover that won the '86 TT. Harvey's car appeared in the '87 race, and as I recall appeared as the front cover pic on the programme.

The '87 programme pic might be the one that appears on the Harvey profile linked above- its definitely familiar. The TWR/Istel paintjob from '86 was different to the 1987 Harvey version- the prodsaloons were similar to the TWR car
Attached Thumbnails
Istel.jpg  

Last edited by KA; 9 Jan 2010 at 16:20.
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jan 2010, 01:46 (Ref:2610793)   #46
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
As you said, Istel sponsored the Allam/Hulme TWR Rover that won the '86 TT. Harvey's car appeared in the '87 race, and as I recall appeared as the front cover pic on the programme.

The '87 programme pic might be the one that appears on the Harvey profile linked above- its definitely familiar. The TWR/Istel paintjob from '86 was different to the 1987 Harvey version- the prodsaloons were similar to the TWR car
http://www.progcovers.com/motor/stt87.jpg

David Sears codriving, but when and where was the picture taken? Mike O'Brien in the Holden in the background sucgesting sometime earlier 1987 but still at Silverstone.

Jesper

Last edited by Jesper OH; 10 Jan 2010 at 01:50. Reason: Additional information/question
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jan 2010, 10:44 (Ref:2610902)   #47
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
http://www.progcovers.com/motor/stt87.jpg

David Sears codriving, but when and where was the picture taken? Mike O'Brien in the Holden in the background sucgesting sometime earlier 1987 but still at Silverstone.

Jesper
Looks like Silverstone? There's a decent crowd in the grandstands, so possibly British GP meeting in July?
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jan 2010, 20:17 (Ref:2621937)   #48
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
Round 10 – August 22nd 1987, Oulton Park

1 hour or 30 laps? Rolling start

And so it was time for an endurance race of the British series. With Chris Hodgetts having already sewn up the title, there were merely class honours to race for. The two class A Ford Sierras were now both in RS500 evo trim with Andy Rouse joining Pete Hall, while Win Percy would switch to the Graham Goode car for this race. The Rovers were down to the usually seen four cars with class A points leader Dennis Leech being joined by ? Innes, while Tim Harvey would have current Ecosse C2-driver David Leslie as driving partner. David Carvell brought Jeff Allam in for a rare '87 race in the car Allam raced at Bathurst '84, while Graham Scarborough had enlisted the service of Lionel Abbott. Mike O’Brien was back with the Holden Commodore adding a considerable Australian flair to the equipe by having the driving talents of Gary Brabham. Finally Mike Newman had his BMW 635 CSi for himself and Robert Speak.
Just three cars would make the class B grid with Frank Sytner and production saloon racer Mike Smith being firm favorites while Mark Hales and Lionel Wiffen would share one of the Terry Drury Escorts. The other Drury Turbo – the expected Hales car - had a driveshaft shear leaving Phil Dowsett and Graham Hathaway without a drive. Rob Kirby would be back in BTCC action partnering Jon Dooley in the surviving Alfa 75 Turbo. Class C had Colin Pearcy with former Metro Turbo racer Paul Taft alongside, while Roger Saunders and Holman Blackburn would share the Renault 5 GT Turbo of Saunders. Allan Minshaw had the service of Vic Lee in the Demon Tweek VW Golf, presumably still the production saloon GTI. Finally class D had three entries with Chris Hodgetts and Tiff Needell sharing both CHMS Corollas, the idea being to swap cars during their mid way pit stop. If plans should fail Win Percy was also qualified for both entries. Final contender was Geoff Kimber-Smith who had Garry Marshall along.

Grid:
1.#2 Pete Hall/Andy Rouse, 1:42.0 – class A pole
2.#6 Graham Goode/Win Percy, 1:43.2
3.#5 David Carvell/Jeff Allam, 1:45.0
4.#8 Tim Harvey/David Leslie, 1:45.6
5.#33 Frank Sytner/Mike Smith, 1:46.0 – class B pole
6.#4 Dennis Leech/? Innes, 1:46.1
7.#7 Mike O'Brien/Gary Brabham, 1:46.6
8.#10 Mike Newman/Robert Speak, 1:47.4
9.#3 Graham Scarborough/Lionel Abbott, 1:48.1
10.#66? Chris Hodgetts/Tiff Needell, 1:50.4 – class D pole (Win Percy DNS)
11.#67? Tiff Needell/Chris Hodgetts, 1:51.2 (Win Percy DNS)
12.#77 Geoff Kimber-Smith/Gerry Marshall, 1:54.6
13.#31 Jon Dooley/Rob Kirby, 1:55.4
14.#38 Mark Hales/Phil Dowsett or Graham Hathaway, unknown time, DNS
15.#55 Colin Pearcy/Paul Taft, 1:56.4 – class C pole, DNS
16.#45 Roger Saunders/Holman Blackburn, 1:56.8
17.#? Lionel Wiffen/Mark Hales, 1:57.3 (Phil Dowsett or Graham Hathaway DNS)
18.#? Alan Minshaw/Vic Lee, 1:58.3

As competitors awaited their afternoon slot for the one hour race a massive down pour flooded the track leaving tyre choice an easy matter. Rain tyres was thus seen on all cars bar the Newman 635 and very late the Listerine Sierra, while the ICS Sierra sported intermediates. As the pack went away from the rolling start the rain had disappeared and a slightly dry line had appeared on the track. Win Percy used his slicks to the full launching him into an immediate lead while the electrics of the ICS car played up forcing Andy Rouse into retirement after only three laps. Tim Harvey was second in the Istel Rover from David Carvell, Frank Sytner, Dennis Leech, Mike O’Brien and Mike Newman. In front Percy was simply astonishing leaving his pursuers a full minute in areas at the scheduled mid race pit stop, alas the stop never materialised. As co driver and car owner Graham Goode was all set to take over the driveshaft of the Sierra snapped and the good job undone. Meanwhile Mike Newman used his slicks to take advantage of the stricken Sierra and not even the pit stop for Robert Speak to take over could oust the venerable 635 from the lead. Jeff Allam, in for David Carvell put in a spirited last half of the race but still fell 8 seconds short in the end despite fastest lap of the race, a lengthy tyre change putting paid to their chances. Mike O’Brien and Gary Brabham was looking set for third when the driveshaft sheared with just four laps remaining. In the CHMS Corolla started by Tiff Needell Chris Hodgetts thus finished an excellent third overall while Needell fought increasingly worn rain tyres on the second team car to finish fifth overall, sandwiching the Scarborough/Abbott Rover in forth. Gerry Marshall was also mixing it with the two CHMS Corollas, but later faded and eventually ended ninth. With Tim Harvey being severely delayed Dennis Leech took little advantage in the points game by finishing only sixth overall, forth in class. The Sytner/Smith M3 never featured in the race being plagued by a misfire that saw its demise after 19 laps. This made class B honours a battle among the Drury Escort and the ARDT 75. Jon Dooley lead this battle but a neat move by Lionel Wiffen saw the Escort in front to take the class win in seventh overall. Incredibly the Minshaw/Lee VW Golf would take class C honours from the Saunders/Blackburn Renault.

The result assured Chris Hodgetts of the 1987 title leaving Mark Hales second from Dennis Leech and a number of other. A four week break would follow before the championship would see round 11 in action at Donington Park on 20 September, but of course a number of teams and drivers would be off to the WTCC counter of the Silverstone Tourist Trophy two weeks before that.

Result:
1./ #10 / Newman, Speak / Newman / A / BMW 635CSi / 30 laps / 59m21.8s
2./ #5 / Carvell, Allam / Potter / A / Rover Vitesse / 30 laps / 59m29.6s – fastest class A lap by Allam
3./ #66? / Hodgetts, Needell / Hodgetts / D / Toyota Corolla GT / 30 laps / 61m09.8s – fastest class D lap by unknown driver
4./ #3 / Scarborough, Abbott / unknown / A / Rover Vitesse / 29 laps
5./ #67? / Needell, Hodgetts / Hodgetts / D / Toyota Corolla GT / 29 laps
6./ #4 / Leech, Innes / Leech / A / Rover Vitesse / 29 laps
7./ #? / Wiffen, Hales / Drury / B / Ford Escort RS Turbo / 28 laps
8./ #31 / Dooley, Kirby / ARDT / B / Alfa Romeo 75 TE / 28 laps
9./ #77 / Kimber-Smith, Marshall / Kimber-Smith / D / Toyota Corolla GT / 28 laps
10./ #? / Minshaw, Lee / Minshaw / C / VW Golf GTI 16V / 27 laps
11./ #45 / Saunders, Blackburn / Saunders / C / Renault 5 GT Turbo / 26 laps – fastest class C lap by unknown driver
NC/DNFs
#8 / Harvey, Leslie / Maguire / A / Rover Vitesse / 26 laps / not classified
#7 / O'Brien, Brabham / Docking / A / Holden Commodore VK / 26 laps / differential
#33 / Sytner, Smith / Sytner / B / BMW M3 / 19 laps / misfire / fastest class B lap driver unknown
#6 / Goode, Percy / Goode / A / Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth / 19 laps / differential
#2 / Hall, Rouse / Rouse / A / Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth / 3 laps / electrics
DNS
#38 / Hales, Dowsett or Hathaway / Drury / B / Ford Escort RS Turbo / halfshaft
#55 / Pearcy, Taft / Pearcy / C / MG Metro Turbo / turbo

It seems as if some guest drivers received points while only the regular driver of other entries was handed points.
It seems that the two Terry Drury Escorts were intended for their regular drivers Mark Hales and Lionel Wiffen as lead driver in their usual cars. Technical issues with the Hales car meant that the line up was altered for the race, but who was Phil Dowsett supposed to partner and who was Graham Hathaway supposed to partner?

Jesper
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...on-park-part-1
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...on-park-part-2
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...n-park-part--3

Video in three parts.

Jeff Allam elaborates slightly more than I have previously heard reported about his connection with the David Carvell Rover he is about to race. He tells that he raced in both 1984 and 1985 at both Bathurst and Spa-Francorchamps without being specific as to where and when.

During the midrace pitstops Lionel Wiffen enters the pits for a driver change to Graham Hathaway according to the commentary. The car has a visible #39 on the side and Lionel Wiffen's name on the door, but at the end of the race the results says Wiffen/Hales as the Autosport results reflects too. This likely means that the intended lineup would be:
#38 Mark Hales/Phil Dowsett
#39 Lionel Wiffen/Graham Hathaway

The winning class D combination of Chris Hodgetts/Tiff Needell races the white #66 car while the second placed red car has #67.

Karl Jones confirmed as co-driver to Dennis Leech with Jones said to bring the Demon Tweeks sponsorship to the Leech car. Significant as Leech carried that sponsorship into 1988.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jan 2010, 21:26 (Ref:2621972)   #49
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
Round 7, Brands Hatch 26/7/87. Not sure of the race distance, and I don't seem to have the grid or race times.

After the GP support, the entry reduced to more usual proportions, although there were still a few extra cars here at Brands

Result as far as I know

1./#8/Tim Harvey/Maguire-Istel/A/Rover Vitesse
2./#4/Dennis Leech/Leech/A/Rover Vitesse
3./#1/Andy Rouse/Rouse-ICS/A/Ford Sierra RS Cosworth
4./#2/Pete Hall/Rouse-ICS/A/Ford Sierra RS Cosworth
5./#7/Mike O'Brien/Docking/A/Holden Commodore VK
6./#??/Brian Chatfield/Chatfield/A/Rover Vitesse
7./#66/Chris Hodgetts/CHMS/D/Toyota Corolla GT
8./#71/Geoff Kimber-Smith/AGK/D/Toyota Corolla GT
9./#31/Jon Dooley/ARDT/B/Alfa Romeo 75 Turbo
10./#??/Alex Moss/CHMS/D/Toyota Corolla GT
11./#55/Colin Pearct/Smith & Latimer/C/MG Metro Turbo
12./#??/Alan Minshaw/Demon Tweeks/C/VW Golf GTi
13./#??/Roger Saunders/UniqueAir/C/Renault 5GT Turbo
14./#38/Mark Hales/Drury/B/Ford Escort RS Turbo
15./#??/Peter? Gottlieb/Gottlieb/C/Renault 5GT Turbo
16./#??/Paul Harmer/Harmer/C/Vauxhall Astra GTE 8v (prodsaloon)

DQ#22/Karl Jones/Asquith/B/Ford Escort RS Turbo-any idea why he was disqualified?

DNF
DNF./#??/Les Germain/Germain/C/Renault 5GT Turbo
DNF./#18/Jerry Mahony/Dowson-Arquati/A/Ford Sierra RS Cosworth (prodsaloon)
DNF./#5/Dave Carvell/R.A. Potter/A/Rover Vitesse
DNF./#30/Rob Kirby/ARDT/B/Alfa Romeo 75V6
DNF./#33/Frank Sytner/Prodrive/B/BMW M3
DNF./#3/Graham Scarborough/Letchworth Roofing/A/Rover Vitesse
DNF./#6/Graham Goode/Goode/A/Ford Sierra RS Cosworth
Found the relevant videos of this round:

http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...s-hatch-part-1
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...s-hatch-part-2

A few notes to the original results:

Grid: 3-2-3-2-etc. for a standing start.

Alex Moss running #69. This car being the red ex-Demon Tweeks car normally wearing #67 and the 9 does see to be of a different font of the 6.

A few shots of Brian Chatfield's Rover is seen.

Paul Harmer's Vauxhall seen of a couple of occasions with #48 and what looks like 14" steel rims!

Rob Kirby running the Alfa 75 V6 ahead of Jon Dooley for as long as Kirby is in the race.

There's a silver and blue Renault 5 GT Turbo in a few shots. Thought it might be that of Paul Gottlieb as this car doesn't seem to appear at the previous Silverstone GP support race.

..and excuse me all runners of class B and C cars, what are Chris Hodgetts doing out in front of you?

Jesper

Last edited by Jesper OH; 29 Jan 2010 at 21:45.
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Jan 2010, 19:11 (Ref:2622413)   #50
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesper OH View Post
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...on-park-part-1
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...on-park-part-2
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/77...n-park-part--3

Video in three parts.

Jeff Allam elaborates slightly more than I have previously heard reported about his connection with the David Carvell Rover he is about to race. He tells that he raced in both 1984 and 1985 at both Bathurst and Spa-Francorchamps without being specific as to where and when.

During the midrace pitstops Lionel Wiffen enters the pits for a driver change to Graham Hathaway according to the commentary. The car has a visible #39 on the side and Lionel Wiffen's name on the door, but at the end of the race the results says Wiffen/Hales as the Autosport results reflects too. This likely means that the intended lineup would be:
#38 Mark Hales/Phil Dowsett
#39 Lionel Wiffen/Graham Hathaway

The winning class D combination of Chris Hodgetts/Tiff Needell races the white #66 car while the second placed red car has #67.

Karl Jones confirmed as co-driver to Dennis Leech with Jones said to bring the Demon Tweeks sponsorship to the Leech car. Significant as Leech carried that sponsorship into 1988.

Jesper
Re the Jeff Allam comments on the Carvell Rover- that suggests it was one of the 1984 Mobil cars raced at Bathurst- Mention by Allam of it having raced in '85 suggests it was also used as a Bastos car at some point (Spa?) I think some of that fits with info posted in the Rover thread, which IIRC came directly from Dave Carvell
KA is offline  
Quote
Reply

Tags
btcc, group a

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1984 Trimoco RAC British Saloon Car Championship - Discussion & Results Jesper OH Motorsport History 160 6 Jan 2024 15:11
1988 Dunlop RAC British Touring Car Championship - Discussion & Results Jesper OH Motorsport History 245 3 Dec 2023 14:28
1983 Trimoco RAC British Saloon Car Championship - Discussion & Results Jesper OH Motorsport History 77 9 Jan 2020 21:10
1986 RAC British Saloon Car Championship - Discussion & Results Jesper OH Motorsport History 153 9 Dec 2015 20:04
1985 Trimoco RAC British Saloon Car Championship - Discussion & Results Jesper OH Motorsport History 111 15 Apr 2012 21:41


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.