W Series for Women - Page 2

FormulaFox · 10 Oct 2018, 20:03 (Ref:3855980)

I have to side with Pippa Mann on this. This isn't like the major ball sports like the NBA or NFL where the difference in size and strength(or more accurately, the difference in how much work is required to achieve similar levels of strength) causes major issues with the idea of the guys and gals playing together. This is a sport where the guys and gals can compete head to head legitimately.

The ladies can, and should, work their way through the proper ladders like everyone else. A series like this is effectively stating that women can't hack it in the other ladders. We know this to be untrue - talent will shine through in the existing championships if given the chance.

The money would be better spent on programs to encourage more women to jump into racing karts, or even F4 cars with everyone else.

**bella** · 10 Oct 2018, 20:04 (Ref:3855982)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i understand your point but as a series specifically for women drivers...the breakdown of its management, owners, mechanics, or for that matter the gender breakdown of those who will watch it is a separate issue no?

this is where, if it was aligned to dare 2b different, it WOULD be about encouraging female talent in every area of the sport. it's recreating the male-dominated environment in every other form of motorsport but with female drivers - what's the point? why are they putting all this effort in to create an entirely new formula but without the blindingly obvious goal of creating somewhere where female talent can also be nurtured and supported.

i agree with formulafox - pippa mann is entirely correct about this, and there's something about the tone of it all that reminds me of the crap carmen jorda comes out with. that is, some half-arsed commercially created form of girl power, handwritten by the patriarchy, parroted by someone too daft to realise they're talking nonsense.

S griffin · 10 Oct 2018, 20:15 (Ref:3855986)

Well it’s obvious why Carmen wanted a female only series, it was the only way she would get results. No wonder there was uproar when she got a place in the FIA for women.

Personally I prefer those like Wolff and Mann who gave it a proper go. Even if they didn’t get the results, they both proved competent in their respective series

chillibowl · 10 Oct 2018, 20:33 (Ref:3855991)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

The money would be better spent on programs to encourage more women to jump into racing karts, or even F4 cars with everyone else.

that i agree with. better to encourage participation at an earlier level and as time goes on, leagues like this wont be needed.

to be fair , i dont know how much of that is currently happening though.

FormulaFox · 10 Oct 2018, 21:15 (Ref:3856002)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

that i agree with. better to encourage participation at an earlier level and as time goes on, leagues like this wont be needed.

to be fair , i dont know how much of that is currently happening though.

All I know is it's not enough. There's plenty of female talent out there that aren't getting the opportunities they deserve, or even realize they're capable of. When I moved up to A-Mods at the dirt track, we let a young lady(16 years old) try out my old B-Mod. She'd never even driven a go-kart and she beat my best ever practice lap in that car. She subsequently won the track championship in the B-Mod class two years in a row before she left racing when she went to college - racing wasn't what she wanted to do full time.

She ended turning down offers for paid drives in touring championships because she saw it only as a hobby to pursue when she'd achieved her real goals. I doubt she'd have gotten those offers if she'd done the same in a women-only category.

Imagine if that talent had been tapped early in a proper competitive environment. She might be getting opportunities in NASCAR about now if such had occurred.

**bella** · 10 Oct 2018, 21:20 (Ref:3856003)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

that i agree with. better to encourage participation at an earlier level and as time goes on, leagues like this wont be needed.

to be fair , i dont know how much of that is currently happening though.

not a lot.

which is the REALLY frustrating bit here. if we were sat here, staring at the same formula proposal, but with a solid fund ready and available for young female racers who are talented and positive role models that still hasn't produced an increase in participation or achievement then maybe...

but no.

FormulaFox · 10 Oct 2018, 22:31 (Ref:3856021)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

not a lot.

which is the REALLY frustrating bit here. if we were sat here, staring at the same formula proposal, but with a solid fund ready and available for young female racers who are talented and positive role models that still hasn't produced an increase in participation or achievement then maybe...

but no.

Agreed. The real crux of the problem as that there isn't a sufficient foundation for it. Fix that, and this could be a great idea. As things stand now, it isn't.

Razzzor · 10 Oct 2018, 23:12 (Ref:3856024)

Are there enough woman in the sport with enough experience to join this and not have it look like a bunch of amateurs? There will be a lot of eyes on this initially and you don't really want it to be a complete shambles. Some of the more well known names like Legge, Simona (who would probably be a title contender) probably won't take part, so we could get some real fresh drivers in the field. I hope they give them a decent amount of testing first. Imagine if it's a bunch of Milka Duno's running at 70% speed of what the men are running at.

If the goal is to get at least 1 female to F1, then this series probably will really help. Because at the moment you've really got to dominate feeder series and have backing, it could be another 50 years before a female manages to do that when 99% of your competitors are male. Odds are so stacked against them. But with FIA backing the winner of this series, if they manage to finish highly in something else will help the required points to get a F1 seat, and you know F1 will want a female racer for their brand even if they aren't the next Lulu Hamilton, Maxine Verstappen, Daniella Ricciardo or Kimberly Raikkonen haha. A Lacey Stroll might be possible though

FormulaFox · 11 Oct 2018, 00:18 (Ref:3856030)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Are there enough woman in the sport with enough experience to join this and not have it look like a bunch of amateurs?

Yes. What there isn't is enough of a basis for getting enough women into motorsport to convince most of the team owners watching of their talent when they're only playing against each other.

As an IndyCar fan I'm faced far too often with the issue of dealing with "fans" who insist the series should be restricted to Americans only. My answer to that has always been that I want to see the ABSOLUTE drivers, not the best drivers from X group of people. The talent scouts will be applying an identical mindset here.

You don't build the house before you build the foundation.

Asa · 11 Oct 2018, 04:40 (Ref:3856050)

I am surprised people say women are at no disadvantage to men when it comes to driving racing cars. Either today's racing cars are too easy to drive or today's women drivers are more tough than they let on.

Putting resources into junior formulae or karting is easy to say but difficult to do. Everyone say they want to do it but who do you give the money to? They don't have much track record for you to refer to since, well, this is entry level stuff we are talking about. Someone wins a kart race and gets the backing? That way the money runs out pretty quick.

I don't see the problem of having a women's championship. I think it will encourage more women's participation. But women should also be allowed to compete in the top (i.e. men's) championship, if they are suitably qualified, like they do in chess and snooker.

Ultimately I think Liberty Media will want to create a Women's F1 Championship, but they need to get enough women racing at a certain level first. W Series might just be the formula they need for this to happen.

SnoodyMcFlude · 11 Oct 2018, 06:55 (Ref:3856063)

I don’t k is whether I like this idea or not. I get the principle but it seems like a bit of a circus to me. Hopefully it will genuinely lead to support in higher series as historically we’ve seen that the few women who get to the top just aren’t quite good enough. That’s sadly just a ratio thing, for every Susie Wolff there are 10 blokes that are just that little bit quicker.

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S griffin · 11 Oct 2018, 08:47 (Ref:3856075)

Anyone remember when the WRC had a ladies title? What was thought of that at the time?

**BertMk2** · 11 Oct 2018, 09:01 (Ref:3856076)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asa

I am surprised people say women are at no disadvantage to men when it comes to driving racing cars. Either today's racing cars are too easy to drive or today's women drivers are more tough than they let on.

Is it really that different now? Michelle Mouton did alright in Group B - and those cars were absolute *******s to drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

That’s sadly just a ratio thing, for every Susie Wolff there are 10 blokes that are just that little bit quicker.

I understand what you're saying about the ratio - if 1 in 100 drivers are women then the chances are the best driver is unlikely to be that woman. Get 25 drivers in 100 being women and the chance is hugely improved. So if there are going to be more women drivers at the top end of motorsport you need more at the bottom end - maybe this series will encourage more to take up karting? That would be a good outcome for it - then once numbers are up you could bin this series. But generally I'd agree that the D2BD approach is a better one - encourage grass roots participation and build from the bottom. It'll take time to get the talent through - there's no "instant fix" which seems to be what people are looking for.

Susie Wolff is a good example of the problem - Mercedes needed a female driver in DTM and their choice was so limited that had to put Susie Wolff in the car.

The other thing I've noticed is that a lot of stuff seems to be focused on the "lack of funding for female drivers" - a lot of drivers (of whatever gender, race or other differentiating factor of your choice) fall off the ladder when the money runs out. That's one area where it's very much equal.

Sodemo · 11 Oct 2018, 09:16 (Ref:3856077)

I always thought it was a shame Suzi Wolff didn't get a race seat when she was at Williams. I was really gutted she didn't get a shot, even when one of the race drivers was out of the picture, a massive shame. I think it would have been good for Suzi, good for women in motorsport, and good for the image of the team. Oh well.

**BertMk2** · 11 Oct 2018, 09:47 (Ref:3856082)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I always thought it was a shame Suzi Wolff didn't get a race seat when she was at Williams. I was really gutted she didn't get a shot, even when one of the race drivers was out of the picture, a massive shame. I think it would have been good for Suzi, good for women in motorsport, and good for the image of the team. Oh well.

Really? The problem was she wasn't a credible option - look at her results. On what basis did she deserve a shot in an F1 car? She was consistently amongst the slowest drivers in DTM - never won, never got on the podium and rarely troubled the points. Do we want women in F1 because they're good enough or women in F1 just so we can say they're there?