DMN..BARC Vs Local clubs

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 12:55 (Ref:2376776)

I am due to re new my membership for B19, but we now have to join BARC for £50 so do I need to belong to both?? Are B19 and local clubs going to lose members

Robert Morris · 22 Jan 2009, 13:15 (Ref:2376787)

As i understand for the dmn as long as you belong to any affiliated msa motor club thats fine. And its there club card that will be checked at signing on.
All you then have to do is register for the championship of your choice.

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 13:31 (Ref:2376799)

Dear Driver,

Re: 2009 Dunlop Motorsport News Saloon Car Championship and Motor Club Membership

We have been informed by the MSA that we need to comply with article C (a) 52 (c) in the competitors and officials year book, which states “If the event is of National ‘B’ or Clubman status, the competitor must be a member of, or join, the organising club or one of the invited clubs.” If we do not comply with this then we will need to make the championship National ‘A’ status.

Currently the DMN championship runs as a National ‘B’ championship. This means that drivers only require a National ‘B’ licence. To comply with the insurance at a race meeting, drivers must also belong to a recognised MSA motor club. In the past we have accepted membership to any club but it has not always been possible to prove that a driver is a member. Consequently we would now have to obtain written permission from each invited club that their drivers can compete. It should be noted that this is not as simple as it would appear and requires further on-going monitoring during the season with each club.

We have two options. The first is we run the championship as a National ‘A’ status championship, which means that drivers can belong to any MSA recognised club, but will have to hold a National ‘A’ licence to compete and we will have to contact each club to confirm membership status. The second option is we continue to run the DMN as a National B championship and all drivers would need to be members of BARC South Eastern as the organising club in 2009, where we can easily check who has a current membership. As noted above, ‘inviting’ clubs has issues with checking/verification during the season and it is far simpler to control if BARC membership is the specification to be met.

As a committee we have taken the decision that we will continue to run the championship as a National B championship and as such all drivers will need to belong to BARC South Eastern for 2009. We believe that this will preserve the nature and ethos of the Championship at the same time as being the most ‘cost effective’ approach. The costs of BARC membership are somewhat less than insisting that all members hold (& maintain) National A licenses.

To become a BARC member you can either complete the application form that was sent to you with your registration form or you can apply online at www.barc.net. For your membership to BARC South Eastern will need to join BARC for £35 and then the South Eastern Centre for £15.

We would like to apologise for the additional ‘hassle’ involved in this requirement that we have to instigate. Should you wish to discuss/clarify matters, please contact Andy Ratcliffe who will be happy to review it with you.

Yours sincerely,

On Behalf Of BARC South Eastern Centre

golfwidow · 22 Jan 2009, 13:43 (Ref:2376813)

i don't think you've got a whole lot of choice if you want to enter the DMN, would imagine that some of the other clubs may loose members.

The MSA can be certain that you (the drivers) are all members of a club especially if your all members of the same club easier to monitor.

I don't know how much a National A licence is, presumabaly more than a Nat B, so swings and roundabouts i would guess, you either pay to join BARC or you pay more in licence fees.

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 14:06 (Ref:2376834)

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfwidow

i don't think you've got a whole lot of choice if you want to enter the DMN, would imagine that some of the other clubs may loose members.

The MSA can be certain that you (the drivers) are all members of a club especially if your all members of the same club easier to monitor.

I don't know how much a National A licence is, presumabaly more than a Nat B, so swings and roundabouts i would guess, you either pay to join BARC or you pay more in licence fees.

I have a Nat A licence anyway

golfwidow · 22 Jan 2009, 14:11 (Ref:2376838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by grichie87

I have a Nat A licence anyway

you would have, but don't suppose everyone has, pressume they cost more than Nat B ones?!

Robert Morris · 22 Jan 2009, 14:11 (Ref:2376840)

Ok i see the bigger picture but it has ramifications.
All my club cards are dated so why do BARC have to check with my clubs?
What happens if you have an A grade licence?
Are the MSA aware of how difficilt it is to put on events and find clubman able to compete, think not. They need reminding of the credit crunch.
I belive some events now wont be totay full last year at different times we have seen drivers come from other championships to have a one off race,with BARC and DMN, be intresting to see if this still happens
Perhaps barc se will come up with an idea for a weekend membership at little cost

Robert Morris · 22 Jan 2009, 14:14 (Ref:2376841)

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfwidow

you would have, but don't suppose everyone has, pressume they cost more than Nat B ones?!

His not the ony one

Copperbottom · 22 Jan 2009, 14:55 (Ref:2376864)

Graham,where/who did the notice come from that you've posted above?

pdd144c · 22 Jan 2009, 14:56 (Ref:2376866)

National A licence only costs about £25 more, but you need 6 signatures to get one. Worth the extra if you plan to race abroad...

Copperbottom · 22 Jan 2009, 14:59 (Ref:2376868)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdd144c

National A licence only costs about £25 more, but you need 6 signatures to get one. Worth the extra if you plan to race abroad...

NAT A would mean that no novice racers like myself would be able to race in dmn,also don't you have to maintain the "A" spec by racing regularily?

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 15:04 (Ref:2376869)

Ho hum just more money, the club cards are just a piece of card so easy to forge or make your own. I the signing in person is given a membership card from the Peckham Motor Club (branches in Paris, Milan and Peckham) signed by D. Trotter how can he/she check if its kosher ? or in date. Clubs will have to issue credit card style cards with some barcode thingy.
I can see the problem, but still if we sign the entry form to say we are members ect... The MSA dont check to see if you are a member of a club before they issue a race licence, why not??

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 15:06 (Ref:2376871)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

Graham,where/who did the notice come from that you've posted above?

BARC SE

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 15:14 (Ref:2376879)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

NAT A would mean that no novice racers like myself would be able to race in dmn,also don't you have to maintain the "A" spec by racing regularily?

£25 and 6 races, a complete novice would be best not to come straight into DMN maybe do the Tin Tops first. Will the new rule effect all championships under th MSA ?? or just us

Robert Morris · 22 Jan 2009, 15:16 (Ref:2376880)

I think the msa are taken us for fools. Ive just checked my local club membership card and it has the msa logo and is stamped with a rubber stamp and signed by the club secretary, the other club card is a purpose printed one, agian signed by the club secretary both have expirey dates. So what we are now saying they have no creditability.
This needs looking at other wise motor sport will be in a worse state than we already recon.
Is there a cost difference for BARC se to run under national A or B are they able to have a dual permit or is there an extra cost?

Robert Morris · 22 Jan 2009, 15:19 (Ref:2376883)

Quote:

Originally Posted by grichie87

£25 and 6 races, a complete novice would be best not to come straight into DMN maybe do the Tin Tops first. Will the new rule effect all championships under th MSA ?? or just us

Im not totaly sure but i think semsec made a small charge last year.

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 15:27 (Ref:2376889)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Morris

I think the msa are taken us for fools. Ive just checked my local club membership card and it has the msa logo and is stamped with a rubber stamp and signed by the club secretary, the other club card is a purpose printed one, agian signed by the club secretary both have expirey dates. So what we are now saying they have no creditability.
This needs looking at other wise motor sport will be in a worse state than we already recon.
Is there a cost difference for BARC se to run under national A or B are they able to have a dual permit or is there an extra cost?

I rest my case M'lord

Chris_w · 22 Jan 2009, 15:33 (Ref:2376894)

Quote:

Originally Posted by grichie87

BARC SE

Which completely contradicts the DMN Registration Form posted on Rod's site on the 8th Dec:

"I would also like to take this opportunity to remind drivers that to race in any of our championships they have to be a member of an MSA recognised motor club. Club membership cards will be checked through out the 2009 season."

It would nice to have a single and consistent source of information before writing out another cheque.

Robert Morris · 22 Jan 2009, 16:20 (Ref:2376927)

[quote=grichie87]Dear Driver,

Re: 2009 Dunlop Motorsport News Saloon Car Championship and Motor Club Membership

In the past we have accepted membership to any club but it has not always been possible to prove that a driver is a member. Consequently we would now have to obtain written permission from each invited club

WHY? there has to be credability in msa issued club cards or there is no value.

Or we join barc and every time we want to do an event with another club will the other club write to BARC. ( think not)

My other gripe is £35.00 to join BARC then a further £15.00 to join the SE region perhaps BARC have got it wrong.
£15.00 TO JOIN THE SE REGION WOULD SEEM FAIR.

Can you not list 10 local clubs like the good old days.

YOU guys at BARC south east work your butts off dont let the system spoil it THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER WAY FORWARD.

Al Weyman · 22 Jan 2009, 16:24 (Ref:2376930)

Well I think you should consider yourselves lucky because I have to belong to two recongnised clubs one being the BARC with a fee of about £105 and the other the CTCRC £85 so £200 before we turn a wheel! In fairness though the clubs do have to employ people to do the chores like entries etc. and CTCRC do also spend money on equipment, barbys etc. and need to survive so I guess unfortunately we all need to pay something and this is nothing new when I was running the Racing Saloon Car Club I registered it with MSA but we still had to belong to BARC, why? Because as I said they did the donkey work.

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 16:27 (Ref:2376933)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Well I think you should consider yourselves lucky because I have to belong to two recongnised clubs one being the BARC with a fee of about £105 and the other the CTCRC £85 so £200 before we turn a wheel! In fairness though the clubs do have to employ people to do the chores like entries etc. and CTCRC do also spend money on equipment, barbys etc. and need to survive so I guess unfortunately we all need to pay something and this is nothing new when I was running the Racing Saloon Car Club I registered it with MSA but we still had to belong to BARC, why? Because as I said they did the donkey work.

If only they did

Robert Morris · 22 Jan 2009, 16:35 (Ref:2376942)

RUNNING COST IS NOT THE REASON BARC SE HAS GIVEN!
TO ME OTHER CLUB MEMBERSHIP CARDS NOW HAVE NO VALUE AND SOME ARE EXPENSIVE.
WE ALL HAVE TO PAY OF COARSE BUT ITS HOW AND WHY.
LETS ALL BE TRUTHFULL EVERYBODY HAS GOT TO WATCH THE PENNIES FOR A WHILE. I JUST DONT WANT TO SEE B19 AND ERMC AND THE LIKES FAIL BECAUSE WE HAVE TO JOIN YET ANOTHER MOTORSPORT CLUB, AND MAKE SAVING ELSE WHERE.

Al Weyman · 22 Jan 2009, 16:37 (Ref:2376943)

Ok well who do you think sends out all the entry forms, processes them, arranges the tracks etc. etc. I have been down to BARC HQ many times and they always seem busy, at the end of the day its a business I am not keen on spending money the same as the next man but I think you will find this is the norm and you guys have been getting off light for some while and still are not on a bad deal, the bottom line is that I doubt any one will be going anywhere as you predict because as I said this is the norm, look on it as a registration fee and have you seen what some clubs are charging for that! Just look at the post about the Blue Oval boys coming over to us and despite still having to join the two clubs they are quids in and very happy.

Robert, stop shouting at the back of the class!

Al Weyman · 22 Jan 2009, 16:41 (Ref:2376949)

BTW you say not running costs but just maybe the sums are not stacking up and they need this revenue, not saying that is the case but it could be and there is nothing to stop anyone forming a club and registering it with MSA as I have done in the past.

grichie87 · 22 Jan 2009, 16:45 (Ref:2376954)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Ok well who do you think sends out all the entry forms, processes them, arranges the tracks etc. etc. I have been down to BARC HQ many times and they always seem busy, at the end of the day its a business I am not keen on spending money the same as the next man but I think you will find this is the norm and you guys have been getting off light for some while and still are not on a bad deal, the bottom line is that I doubt any one will be going anywhere as you predict because as I said this is the norm, look on it as a registration fee and have you seen what some clubs are charging for that! Just look at the post about the Blue Oval boys coming over to us and despite still having to join the two clubs they are quids in and very happy.

Robert, stop shouting at the back of the class!

Mostly Rod, Cheryl, Andy and Graham!! I have all the paperwork they need ,MSA licence, MSA club membership (B19) and signed up for DMN (£15) why is this not enough it fullfills all there rules

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