Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Baltic Touring Car Championship Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Touring Car Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23 Oct 2005, 16:05 (Ref:1441364)   #1
davyboy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
davyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Zanardi for Autosport International Racing Driver of the year 2005 ?

What happened in race 2 of the WTCC at Oschersleben on the afternoon of 28.08.2005 was one of the most monumental happenings in the history of our sport. A disabled competitor won at the highest level of touring car racing in the world beating, 27 world class, able-bodied adversaries. Factor in the 4-year precursor to that day, which began with the horrific events at Lausitz in 2001, and you really have to stand back in absolute awe at the person that is Alex Zanardi. IMO no other driver is more deserved of this award in 2005 than Alex himself... and I would hazzard a guess that the 9 suggestions on page 60 of this week's Autosport list would agree with me. What do we think ?
davyboy is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Oct 2005, 16:49 (Ref:1441386)   #2
johnw
Veteran
 
johnw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
England
Chichester - 1/2 mile from Goodwood
Posts: 1,753
johnw should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Absolutely in agreement.
johnw is offline  
__________________
If, as Freddie Mercury claimed, fat bottomed girls make the rocking world go round, isn't it about time that Croydon received some recognition for its contribution to astrophysics?
Quote
Old 24 Oct 2005, 09:57 (Ref:1441937)   #3
John Turner
Race Official
Veteran
 
John Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Pontesbury, Shropshire
Posts: 13,206
John Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Yes, so am I. Zanardi is a very special and insprational human being.
John Turner is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Oct 2005, 10:33 (Ref:1441961)   #4
ensign14
Veteran
 
ensign14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
British Antarctic Territory
Deception Island
Posts: 3,809
ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!
Mm, it's a difficult one, because I am guessing Alex himself would not want to be treated differently to the other drivers just cos of his disability. And 1 win is not as good as Priaulx and Muller (most of them).

Maybe the Gregor Grant award. On performance in the face of adversity he wins hands down. But on sheer performance in isolation he does not.
ensign14 is offline  
__________________
Birmingham City FC. Founded 1875. League Cup Winners 2011.
Quote
Old 24 Oct 2005, 10:47 (Ref:1441979)   #5
John Turner
Race Official
Veteran
 
John Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Pontesbury, Shropshire
Posts: 13,206
John Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Yes, very valid points. Is the Gregor Grant award given at the same time as the others and how is that decided? I've forgotten.

I'd certainly like to see real recognition for Alex for the reasons given by davyboy.
John Turner is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Oct 2005, 11:46 (Ref:1442032)   #6
davyboy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
davyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Valid points for sure. I do know Alex tries hard not to be treated differently, but its impossible to ignore his predicament. His achievement is a watershed not just in terms of motor-racing, but in all sport. Its extremely rare [if not the first time ever] that a disabled person has climbed to the winners rostrom at world level in such a physical sport. It would be a sad indictment of our sport if it went unrecognized this year.
davyboy is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Nov 2005, 21:19 (Ref:1449806)   #7
Nintendo
Racer
 
Nintendo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Ireland
Dublin
Posts: 377
Nintendo has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Couldn;t agree more. The man is an inspiration.
Nintendo is offline  
__________________
I'm semi evil, i'm quasi evil. I am the Diet Coke of evil. just one calorie, not evil enough.
Quote
Old 1 Nov 2005, 22:10 (Ref:1449859)   #8
Knowlesy
20KPINAL
 
Knowlesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
Knowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
My thoughts exactly ensign.
Knowlesy is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Nov 2005, 22:27 (Ref:1449879)   #9
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As a disabled person myself, and working with others, this might seem a little harsh, but I don't think Alex deserves an overall performance award. Achievement against adversity, undoubtedly, but the win came from finishing 8th in the previous race and holding on to the lead (admittedly very well) rather than actually beating the world-class field in question on pure merit.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Nov 2005, 00:28 (Ref:1449974)   #10
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide
As a disabled person myself, and working with others, this might seem a little harsh, but I don't think Alex deserves an overall performance award. Achievement against adversity...
I think winning an award for achievement against adversity is still a very honourable award and an inspiration to anyone facing physical challenges. He didn't even have to win a race in my opinion. The fact that he can race competitively against other able bodied drivers is notable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide
, undoubtedly, but the win came from finishing 8th in the previous race and holding on to the lead (admittedly very well) rather than actually beating the world-class field in question on pure merit.
The last time I made the same comment, my thread was deleted, but what was his competition like in the Italian championship? Are there any other works team or well funded teams?
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 2 Nov 2005, 02:10 (Ref:1450013)   #11
gttouring
Veteran
 
gttouring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
USB 3.0
Posts: 4,536
gttouring should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not only did alex hold them off- but he lapped with the best, no one passed at the last lap when it counted- are we to say pole winners only hold off comeptition when they win flag to flag?- no winning from the front means you set the pace-
you are the Fox and all are hunting you. Zanardi is one clever fox. and besides he had a few podiums this year, a nominations certainly, although Kimi and Alonso come to mind as driver of the year, the votes must be cast- i have not seen all of Zanardi performances as i have the F1 guys due to Tele schedules, but Zanardi is a certainly deserving champion.
gttouring is offline  
__________________
SuperTrucks rule- end of story.
Listen to my ramblings! Follow my twitter @davidAET
I am shameless ...
Quote
Old 2 Nov 2005, 09:02 (Ref:1450162)   #12
davyboy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
davyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide
As a disabled person myself, and working with others, this might seem a little harsh, but I don't think Alex deserves an overall performance award. Achievement against adversity, undoubtedly, but the win came from finishing 8th in the previous race and holding on to the lead (admittedly very well) rather than actually beating the world-class field in question on pure merit.
Ah now, I think that is an extremely harsh and unfair thing to say. I imagine few would agree with you. Alex did beat the world-class field on merit - he won the race after all. He masterfully controlled from the front of the field and everyone behind him did their damnest to get past. Anyone who has driven competitively will know that having the field breathing down your neck like he had is the most difficult situation to be in.

Alex has done much more than achieve against diversity. He's not competed in 'special' or 'disabled only' sports. He has gone in against abled-bodied athletes, in a physical sport, at world level, without any favours... and won... ON MERIT ! This is monumental and an inspiration to disabled and able bodied people alike.
davyboy is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Nov 2005, 14:04 (Ref:1450435)   #13
Hubble
Veteran
 
Hubble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
England
Bishops Stortford, Herts
Posts: 751
Hubble should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHubble should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by davyboy
Ah now, I think that is an extremely harsh and unfair thing to say. I imagine few would agree with you. Alex did beat the world-class field on merit - he won the race after all. He masterfully controlled from the front of the field and everyone behind him did their damnest to get past. Anyone who has driven competitively will know that having the field breathing down your neck like he had is the most difficult situation to be in.

Alex has done much more than achieve against diversity. He's not competed in 'special' or 'disabled only' sports. He has gone in against abled-bodied athletes, in a physical sport, at world level, without any favours... and won... ON MERIT ! This is monumental and an inspiration to disabled and able bodied people alike.
I agree 100% Davyboy. Why are people so hung up on the notion that only 'first past the flag' drivers are worthy of recognition? OK, Alonso and Raikkonnen have done extremely well this year, but they had the best cars under them. Alex is an inspiration for sure, not something I would say about Fernando or Kimi. Look at the way he has rebuilt his life and career in the four years since that terrible accident. I say the man deserves the award!!
Hubble is offline  
__________________
Give me the wisdom to know what is right, the courage to change what is wrong, and the bank balance to support me when I can't tell the difference
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2005, 16:28 (Ref:1452854)   #14
Nintendo
Racer
 
Nintendo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Ireland
Dublin
Posts: 377
Nintendo has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by davyboy
Ah now, I think that is an extremely harsh and unfair thing to say. I imagine few would agree with you. Alex did beat the world-class field on merit - he won the race after all. He masterfully controlled from the front of the field and everyone behind him did their damnest to get past. Anyone who has driven competitively will know that having the field breathing down your neck like he had is the most difficult situation to be in.

Alex has done much more than achieve against diversity. He's not competed in 'special' or 'disabled only' sports. He has gone in against abled-bodied athletes, in a physical sport, at world level, without any favours... and won... ON MERIT ! This is monumental and an inspiration to disabled and able bodied people alike.
Zanardi lost both his legs. He is a competitive racing driver. he lead from the front. He stayed there. He's an inspirational person. Why not?
Nintendo is offline  
__________________
I'm semi evil, i'm quasi evil. I am the Diet Coke of evil. just one calorie, not evil enough.
Quote
Old 5 Nov 2005, 17:32 (Ref:1452896)   #15
redshoes
Veteran
 
redshoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,908
redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!
From WTCC's lastest press release
Quote:
Alessandro Zanardi doesn’t stop winning; after having claimed the FIA WTCC race in Oschersleben, the Italian Superturismo title and Race 1 in the FIA ETC Cup, the Italian driver was victorious in the Mini Challenge VIP Race at Misano. Among the competitors who lined up behind him was Zanardi’s team manager Roberto Ravaglia, third classified.
The WTCC pole/win may have been a result of finishing 8th in the previous race but the same could not be said of the first ETC Cup race. No idea what the Mini Challenge thing was all about but good to see the WTCC win wasn't just a fluke.
redshoes is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Nov 2005, 07:13 (Ref:1464739)   #16
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Here's a link to an article about Zanardi.

http://www.racingpress.com/publish/article_340.shtml
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 20 Dec 2005, 16:45 (Ref:1487455)   #17
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
In DTM-land they have choosen him as “Driver of the Year” in the category Touring and Sports Car Racing:

Quote:
BMW Team Italy-Spain’s ace Alessandro Zanardi was voted by the readers of Motorsport Aktuell as “Driver of the Year” in the category Touring and Sports Car Racing.
...
23,343 readers took part in this year’s vote. In the Touring and Sports Car Racing category Zanardi collected 18.9 % of all votes and emerged as the winner ahead of 2004 DTM champion Mattias Ekström (15,6 %) and 2005 DTM champion Gary Paffett (14.4 %). Zanardi’s victory came as a surprise as in the past this award was usually won by DTM drivers, but it proved how much the German fans were impressed by the Italian’s comeback as winner of an FIA World Touring Car Championship race in Oschersleben on last August.
http://www.fiawtcc.com/2k5/readnews.asp?id=752

A suprise they didn't choose a DTM driver, but it shows how many fans the Italian driver has.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Dec 2005, 17:47 (Ref:1487484)   #18
Bleu
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Finland
Espoo, Finland
Posts: 995
Bleu should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBleu should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
By the way, Zanardi was one of two drivers to win after finishing 8th in first race. Other was Fabrizio Giovanardi at Spa (he finished 8th and started from pole. Later on Farfus was DQ'd from race 1 and Giovanardi was classified 7th)
Bleu is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2005, 15:16 (Ref:1488756)   #19
davyboy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
davyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
At least the German racing fans managed to recognize true heroism in Zanardi. His achievements this year have got to go down as among the greatest ever in sport. A truely amazing human being.
davyboy is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2005, 16:13 (Ref:1488788)   #20
ensign14
Veteran
 
ensign14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
British Antarctic Territory
Deception Island
Posts: 3,809
ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!
*cough*sympathyvote*cough*
ensign14 is offline  
__________________
Birmingham City FC. Founded 1875. League Cup Winners 2011.
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2005, 20:38 (Ref:1492611)   #21
Nintendo
Racer
 
Nintendo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Ireland
Dublin
Posts: 377
Nintendo has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensign14
*cough*sympathyvote*cough*
That just isn't fair. From your previous posts, you have a point, but not this.
Nintendo is offline  
__________________
I'm semi evil, i'm quasi evil. I am the Diet Coke of evil. just one calorie, not evil enough.
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2005, 22:56 (Ref:1492667)   #22
ensign14
Veteran
 
ensign14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
British Antarctic Territory
Deception Island
Posts: 3,809
ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!
Objectively he was not the Touring Car Racer of the Year. I'd say Paffett was, but surely those who finished ahead of Zanardi in the WTCC would be better? They voted for him as a disabled racing driver, not as a racing driver.
ensign14 is offline  
__________________
Birmingham City FC. Founded 1875. League Cup Winners 2011.
Quote
Old 1 Jan 2006, 11:42 (Ref:1492789)   #23
davyboy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
davyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensign14
Objectively he was not the Touring Car Racer of the Year. I'd say Paffett was, but surely those who finished ahead of Zanardi in the WTCC would be better? They voted for him as a disabled racing driver, not as a racing driver.
I think you've misunderstood what end of year awards are about. They're not a mirror of the finishing order of a race or a championship. They're the subjective view of the judges who issue the award. Over the years there have been many situations where good drivers have been held back by a weak car or a poor set of circumstances and awards such as these have cut through the murk and recognized their performances for what they were. How often has Gilles Villeneuve been hailed ? Zanardi's situation this year was no different and he rightly deserved that award.
davyboy is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jan 2006, 14:00 (Ref:1492842)   #24
ensign14
Veteran
 
ensign14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
British Antarctic Territory
Deception Island
Posts: 3,809
ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!
Priaulx won the WTCC in a privateer car. The same car as Zanardi was driving.

Zanardi gained votes from the Germans because of his disability. Not knocking it, but stating a fact. Like Kratinos winning the comedy 1st prize in 423BC; he came out of retirement cos Aristophanes knocked him the previous year for being an ancient alcoholic, so he wrote a mickey-take play with him torn between his wife Komodia (Comedy) and mistress Putine (booze). Possibly a sympathy vote.
ensign14 is offline  
__________________
Birmingham City FC. Founded 1875. League Cup Winners 2011.
Quote
Old 1 Jan 2006, 15:02 (Ref:1492870)   #25
davyboy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
davyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensign14
Priaulx won the WTCC in a privateer car. The same car as Zanardi was driving.
Priaulx did exceptionally well and I'm thrilled he took the title. I've been a fan and supporter of his since the hillclimb days. But he was driving a different car under a different set of circumstances. The challenge he had to face was dissimilar to Zanardi's. If Zanardi didn't have to operate everything with his hands, then he may even have won the title. We'll never know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ensign14
Zanardi gained votes from the Germans because of his disability. Not knocking it, but stating a fact.
Is it a fact ? Was this actually made public ? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ensign14
Like Kratinos winning the comedy 1st prize in 423BC; he came out of retirement cos Aristophanes knocked him the previous year for being an ancient alcoholic, so he wrote a mickey-take play with him torn between his wife Komodia (Comedy) and mistress Putine (booze). Possibly a sympathy vote.
Bizarre analagy !
davyboy is offline  
Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Autosport Club Driver of the Year andy97 National & Club Racing 14 21 Dec 2005 18:14
Autosport International 2005 peespeed Rallying & Rallycross 45 24 Jan 2005 10:25
Autosport International 2005 Steve Tarrant Marshals Forum 93 13 Jan 2005 08:22


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.