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Old 3 Oct 2019, 15:07 (Ref:3931698)   #196
Richard Casto
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
It makes you wonder how much better they would be doing if Newey was still as involved as he was before
We put him on a pedestal. And he deserves to be there. But the well can go dry for anyone. So he may or may not rescue them. I also wonder how involved he is today. Maybe more than people think?

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Old 3 Oct 2019, 17:05 (Ref:3931717)   #197
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for me this sort of touches on some of the larger problems with F1.

while Max is still young he has been in F1 for 5 seasons now and with his obvious talent level it is, imo, a failing of the sport that such a driver has not yet been able to legitimately compete for a title...for many reasons expressed in many different threads here, there are not enough competitive rides out vis a vis the number of talented drivers currently on the grid.

so i can understand a father's frustration and perhaps this is a good tool to take advantage of....i cant help but think about the timing of the comments.

maybe tacitly on behalf of RB, Jos can apply some justifiable public pressure to Honda before the Japanese GP in the hopes that Honda will scale up their investment/contributions.
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Old 3 Oct 2019, 17:30 (Ref:3931721)   #198
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so i can understand a father's frustration and perhaps this is a good tool to take advantage of....i cant help but think about the timing of the comments.
Actually, I think what is going on is very smart of the Verstappen family. The message is being communicated by Jos and not Max. This allows Max to avoid blowback of being critical of the larger RBR effort. And to be honest, I think the message from Jos is quite respectful. My reading of it is him not slagging anyone.

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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
maybe tacitly on behalf of RB, Jos can apply some justifiable public pressure to Honda before the Japanese GP in the hopes that Honda will scale up their investment/contributions.
To be honest, I find that line of thinking odd. That the problem is Honda and that more pressure is needed to get results? Here is a quote by Jos from the Autosport article

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We're a little behind with the car, we're a little behind with the engine. We need to work harder on those two things if we want to be able to go for the championship next year.
It's clear he understand that at the end of the day that what Max steps into on GP weekends is a car that is a product of the entire team. And if we take him at his word, he feels improvements are needed everywhere.

IMHO, Honda has done nothing but a stellar job to come from where they were (effectively a total redesign of their engine just a few years ago) to knocking on the door of Mercedes and Ferrari. Clearly there is a gap, but I see no evidence that they are not focused and making progress. It's just not like you can yell at them and expect them to pull extra performance out of their backside. But it's still fair to ask them to move the ball forward on the engine front. Which I am sure they are trying to do.

Honda already has brought a new spec in prep for Japan (what Max has now) and I believe they plan to bring a new fuel spec for the Japanese race to try to unlock even more performance. That has been in the works for awhile and would have to have been done in conjunction with the spec they are using now. I think if it was ready earlier, it would have been brought forward earlier.

While Mercedes and Ferrari is leading the way, we are starting to get some level of performance parity. With different solutions working best track to track and section to section. I am of the opinion that we are getting to the point that no single component (driver, chassis, power unit) is so much superior to the others that it just covers up deficiencies in the rest of the solution.

To move forward, I expect RBR needs to make a number of improvements in multiple areas. Which goes back to Jos' comments. He is asking the entire team to figure this out. The end result needs to be better.

Richard

Last edited by Richard Casto; 3 Oct 2019 at 17:55. Reason: typo
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Old 3 Oct 2019, 18:11 (Ref:3931729)   #199
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while i have been critical of Honda, i agree that there are no doubt many things that need to be addressed of which all require more money, same sized, or even greater budget as Merc or Ferrari.

in this case im not suggesting that Honda is the problem but rather they, as being the much bigger corporation, have deeper pockets and all things being equal have more resources to bring to bear at redressing the current spending imbalance.

the money has to come from somewhere...i suppose another way to look at it is if RB are feeling the effects of some amount of resources going to STR?

developing drivers is great but would a more consolidated effort be more practical?
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Old 3 Oct 2019, 19:30 (Ref:3931752)   #200
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in this case im not suggesting that Honda is the problem but rather they, as being the much bigger corporation, have deeper pockets and all things being equal have more resources to bring to bear at redressing the current spending imbalance.
Fair enough. It would be interesting to know what the respective budgets are for the power unit side of things are. Who is out spending who.

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Old 4 Oct 2019, 02:02 (Ref:3931816)   #201
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It's weird that the article or Jos says max is frustrated. He has seemed to me to be much more at ease, calm and mature this year than ever before.

And when you think about the fact that Mercedes has been a single team for years, developed their package for years, same as ferrari, where Honda just joined with red bull this year, I'd say the progress made based been great. It would be unrealistic to expect them to be competing for titles this year. And they have been getting closer and closer as the year has gone on. Obviously they still have some catching up to do, but up till the last cour races, I would have said they were ahead of ferrari already. And they're doing it with one championship caliber driver, rather than two like the other two big teams have. Maybe albon will get there next year, but he isn't there yet, nor was gasly.

Maybe from anyone else, this would be ok, as a way of using leverage to get things moving, but jos is such a slimy character that I would rather he just stay out of it.
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Old 4 Oct 2019, 09:03 (Ref:3931862)   #202
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Max has hardly made a mistake all season and pushed the car to it's maximum, getting some great results out of it. His shot at the title will come
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Old 4 Oct 2019, 09:49 (Ref:3931865)   #203
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
It makes you wonder how much better they would be doing if Newey was still as involved as he was before
He still is

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Old 4 Oct 2019, 13:25 (Ref:3931886)   #204
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
for me this sort of touches on some of the larger problems with F1.

while Max is still young he has been in F1 for 5 seasons now and with his obvious talent level it is, imo, a failing of the sport that such a driver has not yet been able to legitimately compete for a title...for many reasons expressed in many different threads here, there are not enough competitive rides out vis a vis the number of talented drivers currently on the grid.

so i can understand a father's frustration and perhaps this is a good tool to take advantage of....i cant help but think about the timing of the comments.

maybe tacitly on behalf of RB, Jos can apply some justifiable public pressure to Honda before the Japanese GP in the hopes that Honda will scale up their investment/contributions.
From 2014 we have only had two cars capable of winning a championship in the field, from 2017 the same 2 cars are capable of winning the championship but only 1 has a driver with sufficient talent to do so.

Bad luck on Max that he has reached F1 at this time

We can only hope that the turn of form Ferrari has displayed since the summer break is genuine, and the initiatives in the machine for 2021 have the desired effect.

Failing this we are just stuck with a moribund formula, and young and existing driver talent should look elsewhere.
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Old 5 Oct 2019, 00:23 (Ref:3932005)   #205
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He still is



He has said himself he is much less involved in the design and build of the cars. He has more than a few Red Bull side projects and I don't believe is the designer any longer of the F1 project. Appearances in the garage doesn't mean he's as hands on any longer.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 01:00 (Ref:3941287)   #206
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thunderbolt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
with toro rosso name change (Scuderia Alpha Tauri) and no junior drivers could we see a redbull full podium ?
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