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Old 2 Dec 2019, 15:32 (Ref:3944314)   #61
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Thatís open to debate. I agree Stroll isnít the best driver, but he is WAY better than some other pay drivers in the sport, who did nothing in the junior formulas, yet managed to buy their way into a car with no other reason than money
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 15:42 (Ref:3944316)   #62
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Surely that's what we are doing? Debating the validity of our arguments?
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 15:43 (Ref:3944317)   #63
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im a fan, but arguably the Hulk wasnt delivering either.

Perez is a pay driver as well and, if memory serves, he made more of a mark at Force India then Hulk did and while Hulk probably fared better vs Perez then Stroll did against Perez this season, overall both got beaten fairly regularly by Perez.

that of course has little to do with whether or not Stroll still deserves a seat though!
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 15:47 (Ref:3944319)   #64
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im a fan, but arguably the Hulk wasnt delivering either.
Ok, I'll accept that other than he was a lot more competitive than Stroll.

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Perez is a pay driver as well and, if memory serves, he made more of a mark at Force India then Hulk did and while Hulk probably fared better vs Perez then Stroll did against Perez this season, overall both got beaten fairly regularly by Perez.
Indeed, he rescued the team with his own money.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 15:52 (Ref:3944320)   #65
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What do you all thought of the lack of DRS first third of the race?

The effect was a bit strong, but it did give me good hopes that with 2021 better to follow cars we can do without DRS and can have much better and more subtle racing.
im going to have to go the other way on this. i think it had very little impact other then perhaps preventing Bottas from making up some extra time to reach the podium.

but essentially the top team advantage is more than enough (with or without DRS) to go from the back of the grid to the top 6 within 20 laps/first pitstop window. and those top teams which started at the front were miles ahead by the time of the fisrt stop window.

and if it seemed that the midfield was closer during those first 20 laps...well they always bunched up at the start of the race.

the best bits still occurred during the first 2 laps (before a properly working DRS is activated anyways) and after Sainz' stop which put him out right behind DanRic (i believe)...DRS being a non factor in either situation.

imo the best battles of the day were between Sainz and the Renault duo and that battle really came to life in the last third of the race when DRS was enabled.

same power plants but Mclaren no doubt have the better overall package and Sainz still very much needed DRS to take the battle to Hulk.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 15:54 (Ref:3944321)   #66
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Ok, I'll accept that other than he was a lot more competitive than Stroll.
fair fair!

the Canadian in me wants to support Stroll but the non billionaire in me thinks he should just take his bag of money home!
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 15:55 (Ref:3944322)   #67
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steve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Another angle: Force India looked like disappearing altogether recently. If it were not for Stroll Snr, that indeed might have happened. Having splurged kajillions of dollars, he has put Stroll Jnr into a seat. So perhaps we would be looking at an 18 car grid if not for the Stroll family?

In the circumstances, should we be complaining that Stroll is no Schumacher, as without him there would possibly be no seat for Perez?
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 16:01 (Ref:3944323)   #68
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Thatís a well balanced point. Of course itís unlikely that Stroll will get a seat elsewhere, but itís thanks to him and his dad we still have the team and that deserves credit
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 17:21 (Ref:3944334)   #69
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Anyone else enjoy the radio comments from Sainz and Norris?
Yes! I got a real laugh out of Lando. I am going to have to start paying attention to him. He might be my new favorite of the new generation.

Good highlights of the team radio below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhBjukuYmr0

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Old 2 Dec 2019, 18:05 (Ref:3944344)   #70
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He's such a happy chap who seems to have to pinch himself that he's driving for McLaren in F1 and doing rather well.... I'm in the fan club too.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 18:59 (Ref:3944354)   #71
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Yes! I got a real laugh out of Lando. I am going to have to start paying attention to him. He might be my new favorite of the new generation.

Good highlights of the team radio below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhBjukuYmr0

Richard
Thanks for the link! Nice to have some young drivers not afraid to let their personalities shine through......
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 22:29 (Ref:3944404)   #72
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I remember Danny made Lando cry with laughter at the British GP press conference
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Old 3 Dec 2019, 17:35 (Ref:3944595)   #73
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Another angle: Force India looked like disappearing altogether recently. If it were not for Stroll Snr, that indeed might have happened. Having splurged kajillions of dollars, he has put Stroll Jnr into a seat. So perhaps we would be looking at an 18 car grid if not for the Stroll family?

In the circumstances, should we be complaining that Stroll is no Schumacher, as without him there would possibly be no seat for Perez?
I look at this way: is the pay driver allowing a seat for a relevant second driver? In this case, no. The second seat is also a pay driver. The second seat is taken by a guy who is basically grid filler at this point. Perez has had some nice drives, but he's never going to be top of the line. Would anyone truly miss him if he wasn't there? How often are we aware he's there if not wrecking with his teammate? So no, it isn't worth it to have racing point if the drivers are who they are. If the second seat was used for an Esteban ocon type, or George Russell, or basically a feeder seat for mercedes to park talent like ocon in, then yes, I might even pull for the team.

I've always had the "what if I won the lottery" dream, where if I won enough to pay for it, I'd spend a portion on a race team. And if I did, I would know my car that i drove in would be uncompetitive, (think gentleman driver in sportscars). And the second seat for that car might be a pay driver to afford a second and maybe third car, which would actually be there for a professional tandem in one, so I would be adding one competitive car to the grid for the fans, while living out my dreams. Let daddy stroll and his boy live their fantasy, fine. But give us a second car and driver that provides us entertainment and excitement. Another pay guy like Perez is not it.
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Old 3 Dec 2019, 18:03 (Ref:3944602)   #74
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What you wish for is pie in the sky, racing has top teams and lower teams and top drivers and lower level drivers it is the way it has always been, if all cars were equal and all drivers equal we would never have any development and the whole point of racing is supposed to improve the car for everyday drivers. In any case the prospect of racing where the results are already know before the cars start is pretty dire unfortunately the current dominance in F1 is making less exciting that it could be. IMHO of course
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Old 3 Dec 2019, 21:09 (Ref:3944632)   #75
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What you wish for is pie in the sky, racing has top teams and lower teams and top drivers and lower level drivers it is the way it has always been, if all cars were equal and all drivers equal we would never have any development and the whole point of racing is supposed to improve the car for everyday drivers. In any case the prospect of racing where the results are already know before the cars start is pretty dire unfortunately the current dominance in F1 is making less exciting that it could be. IMHO of course
Maybe I didn't explain it well enough, because I don't think it's pie in the sky. If I look at every f1 team, other than racing point, I can see some value. Alfa romeo has giovanazi who is a Ferrari driver. Williams, as bad as they are, will have one pay driver, but one talented young driver who is worth paying attention to in Russell, who has mercedes ties. Haas is next worst in this regard to racing point, as grosjean is in the perez camp imo, but magnussen is at least still young, tho doesn't seem to be likely to go much higher. Also, no manufacturer tied drivers. Renault has/had 2 good ones, did and will again next year. Torro rosso has one replaceable, brings Russia money guy, but also gasly. Now, with kyviat and albon, even that was hard to find much value imo, except albon has shown talent.

What I'm getting at, is I don't mind a pay driver on a team, but if you're gonna have one, have a young, rising stud in the other seat, or a championship contender. The problem with racing point is, the pay driver is the young one and the team owner (daddy) likely doesn't want to put a stud young rider or championship caliber guy there to embarrass his son. Hence, a non-descript, replacement level older guy, in perez. Thus, not providing any value to my viewership, making me not care if they were gone, and seeing no difference between 18 cars without them or 20 with them.

All just my opinion, of course, as one single fan.
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