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Old 13 Nov 2019, 16:50 (Ref:3940436)   #16
steve_r
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steve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Expensive cement that. Not exactly "green" either!
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Old 13 Nov 2019, 17:56 (Ref:3940444)   #17
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‘Tyre Derived Fuel’ is common, apparently.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire-derived_fuel
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Old 13 Nov 2019, 21:58 (Ref:3940486)   #18
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‘Tyre Derived Fuel’ is common, apparently.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire-derived_fuel
So from that article and given the quantities of tyres used by F1 it would seem that CO2 produced from the exhaust gases is a negligible problem.

"While environmental controversy surrounding use of this fuel (used tyres) is wide and varied, the greatest supported evidence of toxicity comes from the presence of dioxins (carcinogens) and furans (harmful at 50ppt parts per trillion) in the flue gases. Zinc has also been found to dissolve into storm water, from shredded rubber, at acutely toxic levels for aquatic life and plants"

So environmental vandalism is fine as long as it isn't CO2.

Last edited by wnut; 13 Nov 2019 at 22:12.
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 02:09 (Ref:3940504)   #19
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
right on!
and made all harder as the number of races is set to increase...i would assume that also means more back to back weekends perhaps then making ground and sea transport less time effective?
Is this the height of cynicism, increasing their carbon footprint while trying to convince everyone that they are good fellows and neutralising it. Is this the present footprint or the one they are going to increase through more scheduled races? If they reduced the number of races they would surely meet the target earlier but that ain't gonna happen. I doubt they can actually meet their target but if releasing this program makes them feel better then so be it. This is simply a preemptive move to ward off criticism that they may be subject to during the current rise on awareness concerning climate change which they hope not to become embroiled in, fat hope of that happening though I would think. Lewis Hamilton sure does have some influence that's for sure.
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 08:32 (Ref:3940532)   #20
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helgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
We should search for more ecological power - that's the fact.
All the marketing departments and politicians just use obvious masses anxiety to make some profit out of hype - unfortunately that's the fact too if you check some real data.
It's more important to make reliable and long serving ICE and stop buying new cars every 2-3 years. CO emissions are not as harmful as some plastic recyclable stuff in form of batteries. You need lots of energy to produce a battery and even more energy to try recycling even a part of it. They still do not know what to do with smartphone cells. They have only projects or small factories to cope with 1-2% of batteries. What to do with millions of tons of wasted accumulators from an electrofleet in 2030's? It's not so difficult to plant new forests to help the Nature with CO "recycling", to consume less natural resources, to use long life-cycle vehicles. Instead they are trying to invent some plastic (generally) stuff which Nature can not cope with at all, produce toxic energy storage devices and so on and on. Just to make some profit.
And yes, F1 should better think of clever logistics and use less planes. Azerbaijan-Canada-France or Italy-Singapore-Russia-Japan combinations are superbly ridiculous from real eco point of view.
So, all "eco" motives are targeting those who are driven by slogans not logic. Pure marketing, no real sense or help for the Nature in it.
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 12:10 (Ref:3940555)   #21
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grantp should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If they really want to come up with something relevant to the message they could look back to 40 or so years ago and check the scale of operations at the time.

The way things are looking, like it or not, by 2030 and in much of the world, the concept of car "ownership" for personal use may well be under severe threat and may have been replaced. It seems to me quite likely that the numbers of manufacturers of motor vehicles will be much reduced even if brand names somehow survive.

Transport around the world may be quite distinctly split between electrified and ICE with perhaps some sort of intermediate systems involving Hydrogen.

Much will depend on the practicalities of making an electricity based energy structure available in places with rather different geography, ecology, geology and economies.

In which case the relevance of F1 as anything other than gladiatorial entertainment would be questionable. Thus the show could develop into almost anything.

Or nothing.
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 16:24 (Ref:3940589)   #22
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
...Is this the present footprint or the one they are going to increase through more scheduled races? If they reduced the number of races they would surely meet the target earlier but that ain't gonna happen....
for sure fewer races would be the most expedient way to reduce the footprint. it is certainly a preemptive move but i cant blame them. and i agree, it remains to be seen if FOM are genuine in their goals. personally i hope so because i would like to continue to be a fan and supporter of F1.

also i do think it is possible to be both genuine in combating climate change while pursuing a profit...im free market like that!

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We should search for more ecological power - that's the fact. ...

So, all "eco" motives are targeting those who are driven by slogans not logic. Pure marketing, no real sense or help for the Nature in it.
while you are to a large extent correct, i dont think anyone expects FOM/F1 to save the planet on its own. as such i dont think its fair to dismiss their attempts as just being a part of the problem.

for them it may just be a slogan, it may just start out as a slogan, but if that slogan succeeds in attracting an ever growing number of environmentally conscious consumers, if it succeeds in creating a better product to sell to those consumers, if it succeeds in encouraging more sustainable purchasing and travel habits then surely this is a positive...both for the consumer as well as for their profit statement.

if we add this initiative to every other company trying to capitalize on the hype and anxiety then we may actually be looking at real and substantive change in our consumption behavior..

is this not how ecological power is created and accumulated?

great slogans and marketing made the world this way...surely it can also remake it.

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If they really want to come up with something relevant to the message they could look back to 40 or so years ago and check the scale of operations at the time.
interesting.

we have the turbo engines now and some of the new rules are suggesting less aero sophistication and a return to more mechanical grip. a slower development cycle (less updates to be allowed each season) and a smaller budget should theoretically mean less wind tunnel and supercompter/CFD time...

from a certain point of view i wonder if Brawn (perhaps unintentionally) is attempting to reset the clock back to the early 80s?
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 17:52 (Ref:3940609)   #23
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
from a certain point of view i wonder if Brawn (perhaps unintentionally) is attempting to reset the clock back to the early 80s?
IMHO, yes and no. They are picking and choosing things. Some might be from prior eras. But a big reset? No. See below

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If they really want to come up with something relevant to the message they could look back to 40 or so years ago and check the scale of operations at the time.
Scale of the operations for sure. The sport is just "bigger" in all ways. Making the overall circus smaller would reduce it's footprint. Or as you say (or I think you are saying) it shouldn't have grown as big as it has in the first place.

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Old 14 Nov 2019, 19:20 (Ref:3940623)   #24
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....and of course the drivers will be trading in their private jets in for solar powered electric bicycles..
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 20:09 (Ref:3940629)   #25
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A few of the people involved in F1 a long time back were also into private aviation.

It seemed sort of natural at the time.

Graham Hill for one.

Francois Cevert, Derek Gardner, David Purley.

There will be others that do not spring to mind.

Colin Chapman?

But not the scale that we have today, probably because the money was not there.

The problem that any current or recent owners have faced is that to be a meaningful "brand" generating a LOT of revenue these days things have to be BIG.

If it reverts to 'small is beautiful' it's not much of a business - especially if one has paid significant sums to buy it and, perhaps, is saddled with debt to pay for it.

But more problematically there is the question about how one makes the product relevant.

If the next target generation for F1 goes all Greta T, how can Liberty re-shape the product to be in any way relevant and meaningful to the coming generations?

Or, alternatively, how can they reshape the coming generations to be less Greta T?
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 20:21 (Ref:3940631)   #26
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Think LH has already said he is getting rid of his private plane (or already has)? Will maybe make use of NetJets (or similar) service instead, but bit like not having a car and getting lifts / taxis everywhere- still producing CO2......
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 20:27 (Ref:3940633)   #27
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Think LH has already said he is getting rid of his private plane (or already has)? Will maybe make use of NetJets (or similar) service instead, but bit like not having a car and getting lifts / taxis everywhere- still producing CO2......

But was that something to do with Tax one wonders?

It's interesting how something that apparently gives one one's family life back one year is for some reason not acceptable a year or two later.
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Old 14 Nov 2019, 20:58 (Ref:3940640)   #28
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Sure I read somewhere this week that they are shredded, then sent to a facility to be burned at high temps and produce fuel for cement factories.....
they are. i believe there's something added during manufacture to make the burn process less toxic, but i can't remember where i read that either!

in terms of use, f1 tyres do about the same mileage as a set of other single seater or gt tyres. i suppose one difference would be that the 13" and 18" second hand market is pretty good, so a set of those can often do several hundred more km before they're finally sent to pasture.

tyres can also be turned into road surfaces, bridge joins and allsorts. by law, any tyre scrapped in the uk (which will include the f1 tyres) has to be recycled so we're pretty good at it.
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Old 15 Nov 2019, 08:15 (Ref:3940686)   #29
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Was going to stay out of this since it seems to me to be simply pandering to a group of idiots that really don't care about motorsport in any form. However the processes for recycling tyres (tires) and the various uses are interesting: https://www.eldan-recycling.com/en/tyre-recycling
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Old 15 Nov 2019, 10:43 (Ref:3940704)   #30
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I always thought tyre recycling is a good idea, would save a lot
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