Msv & Brscc

[redshoes]

Well said Simes. There seems to be a desire to blame MSV for this, yet you've only got to look at previous years to realise that the BRSCC have largely brought this on themselves.

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Just a thought and no doubt the MSA would stick the kybosh on this, but when they (the clubs) issue entry forms and are getting a slow response or prehaps the championship is starting to fail that they can have the option to sell other places on the grid at short notice at a discounted price on an allcomers basis

Interesting thought Al but not sure how practical or how well received it would be. Let me give you an example. I'm not picking on any particular championship or drivers here, it's all hypothetical.

Lets say that the Fiesta Championship arrives at Mallory with 15-20 entries, only to find that the remaining dozen grid slots have been offered to anyone with a saloon. Alongside the Fiesta we now have a Camaro, an ex-Thundersaloons Belmont, a WRC Escort plus the other usual suspects, in other words, a totally mis-matched grid. The Escort would most likely lap the Fiestas twice within the course of the race so the Fiesta guys will only manage 8 laps instead of their scheduled 10. Plus as Ian says they have had to pay full price compared to the allcomers. That's without the possible arguments of the championship leaders being wiped out by one of the faster cars, or spinning on oil dropped by a 'guest' entry.

I can understand having a guest class for cars with a similar performance but not build to championship regs, or combining similar championships, but not allowing an open free-for-all in the middle of a championship race.

[hometune]

If we do see the demise of the brscc over the next couple of years it will serve as warning to the other clubs and championships as to what wll happen if they don't finally start listening to competitors, marshals and spectators. Self interest ensures that attempts to persuade championships to fold have always failed. Those that go usually do after the numbers of entries gets to a comical level.

I can't see MSV running anything which does not currently, or with a little effort cannot be in the near future, have nearly full grids (except maybe Tcars- back to self interest ). The days of one makes series passing from manufacturer support to a slow demise after a couple of successful years with a club are gone. It's not happening with the clio's this time around.

As for many other things, such as music and fashion, what's popular passes in cycles. Whilst understanding all the opinions about wanting a chance to win overall, not liking being lapped, speed differentials, etc, I think the successful saloon and sports car series (not necessarily championships) over the next few years will return to multi class structures ( as per 70's /80's )and operate mainly in regions not nationally.

Personally, I don't feel any long term allegiance to a particular club. I'll go where I get the best deal whilst supporting those that offer that deal.

[simes43]

Using Redshoes example, if a championship can only muster 15 cars for a round at Mallory, then how many will turn up at a Pembrey, Lydden or Knockhill round, 7 or 8?

Unless the Fiestas are in their first or second season, amalgamate them

The BRSCC invested lots of time, energy and our money in Tcars, what more proof does anyone need that they are not fit for purpose!

[Stephen Green]

And Eurocars before that...

[nyssa7]

This is all well and fine but don't you think that if the BRSCC (or any of the other major organisers) went under, that it would have major knock-on effects for all of us - or at least those that race under that club?

How many of us might be left with cars that don't fit in anywhere else? I might be eligible without too many mods for DTRC, but that's a very restricted pool of circuits even though I'm a southerner. can't find anywhere my car could run, so that years' of effort and money down the drain? And I wouldn't be alone

There's enough dormant race cars (let alone drivers) as it is without forcing more to be of no use

[hometune]

Originally Posted by nyssa7

How many of us might be left with cars that don't fit in anywhere else?

A little research into lap times on the MST site always surprises me as it shows how many different cars could run together and have a close race as they have very close lap times. This happens a lot in multiclass races with lightweight smaller cars having good battles with heavyweight larger cars.

I suspect it might be better for the sport if the overall number of races held each year fell as those that remained may be more entertaining both for spectators and drivers. I always feel it's been a bit of a waste of the entry fee if you have a race where you run on your own all race. Just in the South East alone it's not been uncommon this year to have been able to race a modified saloon at three circuits on the same weekend.

How many of the dormant cars/ drivers really could run? I would only consider them dormant if there wasn't a race they could compete in as they didn't meet the technical regulations. If they don't come out because of finance, lack of competitiveness, don't like the circuit, etc, etc they aren't truely dormant. Not a critisism of anyone not running as I've been there myself re finance.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by simes43

Using Redshoes example, if a championship can only muster 15 cars for a round at Mallory, then how many will turn up at a Pembrey, Lydden or Knockhill round, 7 or 8?

It was a hypothetical example. I used Fiestas simply because that was the first series that came to mind, I don't know if they actually suffer from poor grids or not.

For Fiestas, subsitute Mighty Minis, Fiats, MX5s, 2CVs or any other small engined cars. The point was that allowing the odd big engined allcomer isn't always going to work.

[simes43]

Originally Posted by nyssa7

This is all well and fine but don't you think that if the BRSCC (or any of the other major organisers) went under, that it would have major knock-on effects for all of us - or at least those that race under that club?

How many of us might be left with cars that don't fit in anywhere else? I might be eligible without too many mods for DTRC, but that's a very restricted pool of circuits even though I'm a southerner. can't find anywhere my car could run, so that years' of effort and money down the drain? And I wouldn't be alone

There's enough dormant race cars (let alone drivers) as it is without forcing more to be of no use

The other clubs would pick up the healthy championships and put on a full program of complete grids, therefore covering the circuit hire problem, the unhealthy championships are then amalgamated or dropped.

Fewer clubs would also mean less technical overlaps for championships where currently identical cars compete for the same market share under different banners.

Many of the dormant cars have been purchased cheaply from championships that are past their sell by date and/or are expensive to run.

If drivers joined well supported series, then only proper business cases would ever make it through the "new championship" selection process.

Unless the grids are full or supported financially by a series sponsor, the current fiddling in the margins will bite all of us.

Or the BRSCC gets its act together.

[simes43]

Originally Posted by redshoes

It was a hypothetical example. I used Fiestas simply because that was the first series that came to mind, I don't know if they actually suffer from poor grids or not.

For Fiestas, subsitute Mighty Minis, Fiats, MX5s, 2CVs or any other small engined cars. The point was that allowing the odd big engined allcomer isn't always going to work.

There was quite a few Fiestas at Brands a couple of months back, so wrong example. If they were in trouble, put the Fiats onto the grid, not a group of thundersaloons!

The 924 championship was a classic example of a series that went on for far too long.

[Snapper Baz]

What do you know about racing anyway simes Must admit I think the 924's have probably served their time as a stand alone series and could be added to something else...how about the new "Britcar feeder" series?

[R59]

I'm starting to feel picked on here. What's wrong with plenty of spare cubic inches and a spot of wanderlust? eh? Though my performances to date (blighted with technical woes) have left me trundling around with the Fiesta's (except in a straight line when the yeee haaarrr factor comes into play).

Now, Baz, I agree with you here. Except.... Britcar has a reputation for being a fair bit more expensive than the regular clubbie stuff. You get what you pay for in terms of track time per pound, but with limited budgets, it won't be in many club racer's price range. It probably fits in where the likes of the old National Saloon Car Cup, or even Formula Saloons/Thundersaloons did.
The feeder series will no doubt still cost more than existing Nat.B clubbie stuff. Though the talk is that with Britcar running under the umbrella of other meetings next season, costs will be reduced, and that will pass down the chain to the competitors (in the Tucker way).

To the matter at hand... the BRSCC will need to weild the axe dramatically over the winter, and pass off some series' for almalgamation with others. That's if it want's to survive another season in the form that it is now. Otherwise, they could change their name to the British Automobile Racing Club and move HQ to Thruxton.....

I'm wondering whether I should shell out for another year's racing membership, with the wife added onto a joint membership, that's almost a new rear tyre for the Belmont....

Rob.

[Don Truman]

When you have all finished mourning??? the demise of the BRSCC we have some new blood in our veins. I suggest that you wait for the 07 dates before you write us off.
Don Truman

[Rod Birley]

Don, I think the Midland centre is going to be busy, especially at Silverstone, but the question was directed to the number of events on MSV circuits. Certainly Oulton Park looks like having more BRSCC run meetings, but Brands Hatch is likely to only have two or three, unless of course something has changed.

[Al Weyman]

Well I for one hope you do survive OK Don as I have always enjoyed any BRSCC meetings I have ran at going way back to Road Saloons to the round at the Rock this year.

[avro]

Don, usually in January we get the dates given out marked PROVISIONAL, they tend to stay that way until March when racing starts, so why can't the dates be published now and still marked PROVISIONAL, at least it lets us concerened racers enjoy Xmas and able to prepare our cars for the fast approaching season.

Why so much cloak and dagger waiting around, all of the big race weekends are as near as damn it fixed so wheres the harm if a few dates get changed.

I for one would back losing a couple of the MSV circuits if it means a more consistent approach to entry fees, but it would have been nice as a BRSCC member to have been asked via email or newsletter if I would have been prepared to have paid an increase instead of being informed via this forum that the BRSCC are considering to make the decision without consultation of its members.

[flagwaver]

You have not been informed via this forum about any plans of the BRSCC, you have been listening to rumors.

[Ian Sowman]

I don't think it is a big deal. If the indication is that there are two to three Brands dates and six Oulton dates, that is the same as 2006. As I recall, there were only a couple of BRSCC meetings at Cadwell this season and the majority of the Snetterton dates were thinly supported - both in terms of number of entrants and number of races.

I suspect there might just be some more efficient timetabling with fewer very empty days...

[R59]

Originally Posted by Don Truman

When you have all finished mourning??? the demise of the BRSCC we have some new blood in our veins. I suggest that you wait for the 07 dates before you write us off.
Don Truman

I'm not Formula Ford, so don't worry, I'm not doing it today...

Like many other racers, I do with they'd publish the provisionals around now, so we can at least get our affairs in order for the coming season. If only to book a paraffin budgie to sweep us off to sunnier climbs for rest for a week or two. By the time the dates are out, most holiday venues are booked up, and you either have to slum it, or spend a heap of extra filthy lucre to get a decent gaff.

I stand by what I say though. And it goes for the BARC too. Sharpen the axe, get out the glue, and cut & paste to thin out the splintered championships with less than 20 car grids.

And I look forward to seeing the new blood at the BRSCC...

Rob.

[simes43]

The 750mc have released their provisional dates for 2007.

See, it can be done.

The question is: Is there a blood bath currently in progress or are the BRSCC looking for some deep sand to place their un-crash helmeted heads as usual.

[Shalders]

The 750mc have released their provisional dates for 2007.

Is it available somewhere? Can't see it on their homepage. Are they shying away from the MSV circuits too?

[simes43]

Brands, Cadwell, Oulton and Snett all feature. Less Brands rounds than usual.

http://www.locostforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57

[youngoldy]

Well, as far as the North West Formula Ford championship goes for me, a reduced amount of BRSCC meetings at MSV tracks is a good thing. I want plenty of racing and running at Anglesey, and with an option to do a double header at Donny in 07, it looks as if that BRSCC meetings at Oulton will drop into single figures in 07.

Shame really as with FF's heritage at Oulton. Perhaps, if the BRSCC and MSV drift away, that Oulton or any MSV circuit at that, could start its own race club, to prevent formula's dying out and fading into the distance. A simular thing to Combe.

Anyone agree?

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by simes43

Brands, Cadwell, Oulton and Snett all feature. Less Brands rounds than usual.

2 weekends at Brands for 750 is the norm.

Originally Posted by youngoldy

Perhaps, if the BRSCC and MSV drift away, that Oulton or any MSV circuit at that, could start its own race club,

MSVR then?

[simes43]

[QUOTE=Bodysnatcher]2 weekends at Brands for 750 is the norm.


Only one race at Brands next season, usually two to three.

[chezza]

Ah Simes your looking at it from a series point of view, from a meetings point of view there isn't a lot of difference.