Webber's podium - will it ever come? - Page 4

Mr V · 8 Apr 2005, 15:28 (Ref:1273397)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsg

Bahrain was never a podium opportunity because the Williams were too slow, mainly because of the heat.

Ok, Bahrain was hotter than Sepang, but Sepang was mighty hot also. Surely Williams had as much chance of a podium at Bahrain as they did in Sepang?

Mark going off the circuit also reduces the possibility of a podium too.

mixxer · 8 Apr 2005, 15:57 (Ref:1273424)

We still going on about the sepang incident ?
Somebody plllllleeeeeaaaaaasssssseeee remind me just who it was that the stewards reprimanded after the Sepang incident, Webber or Fisi ?

That will refresh my memory of who was actually at fault rather than relying on who the TV commonpotato felt was at fault

**Adam43** · 8 Apr 2005, 16:07 (Ref:1273436)

All stewards decisions are up for questioning on 10 Tenths. That incident was very interesting racing wise, but you are right discussion is spolit by those who can't see past who was involved in it.

Kicking-back · 8 Apr 2005, 17:10 (Ref:1273479)

Clearly a time to apply Wrex's test:

Would opinions on this incident have been different if Webber had been the one on the inside and slid into Fisichella?

BootsOntheSide · 8 Apr 2005, 17:30 (Ref:1273494)

I think Mark lost positions due to the off at Bahrain, although the car didn't seem fast enough for 3rd on the day, McLaren certainly had a better raceday car underneath them, perhaps backing up KB's theory that they're not hard enough on the tyres.

Just to reiterate - Mark is too good a driver to never reach the podium, and the package he was this season should be good enough. Whatever the circusmtances, he's got within touching distance 3 times in 3 - eventually one of those races falls the rght way for you,a dn so often teh floodgates open.

Kicking-back · 8 Apr 2005, 17:32 (Ref:1273497)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

, McLaren certainly had a better raceday car underneath them, perhaps backing up KB's theory that they're not hard enough on the tyres.

.

It's Ron Dennis, Adrian Newey, Matin Whitmarsh, Kimi Raikkonen and Pedro de la Rosa's theory, rather than mine.

mixxer · 8 Apr 2005, 18:26 (Ref:1273539)

Quote:

Would opinions on this incident have been different if Webber had been the one on the inside and slid into Fisichella?

IMO honestly no, I would have defended Fisi if Webber dive bombed him.

**Peter Mallett** · 8 Apr 2005, 18:45 (Ref:1273556)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Clearly a time to apply Wrex's test:

Would opinions on this incident have been different if Webber had been the one on the inside and slid into Fisichella?

Not from here.

Knowlesy · 8 Apr 2005, 18:56 (Ref:1273572)

Not from here either.....both were guilty of major misjudgement.

**Peter Mallett** · 8 Apr 2005, 18:59 (Ref:1273574)

Its a no brainer. Winning a Stewards enquiry or getting your first podium.

Easy really.

Knowlesy · 8 Apr 2005, 19:01 (Ref:1273579)

Or is it.....

dsg · 9 Apr 2005, 07:43 (Ref:1273819)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Clearly a time to apply Wrex's test:

Would opinions on this incident have been different if Webber had been the one on the inside and slid into Fisichella?

No, because a driver who loses control of his car whilst attempting a pass is the one at fault.

dsg · 9 Apr 2005, 07:55 (Ref:1273823)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Its a no brainer. Winning a Stewards enquiry or getting your first podium.

Easy really.

You can't say that because if Mark had of allowed Fisi to slide by on that corner, Fisi wouldn't have driven into him on the next corner or the one after that or in two laps time etc.

Hindsight is one thing but gazing into the crystal ball for answers is something entirely different.

**Peter Mallett** · 9 Apr 2005, 08:04 (Ref:1273828)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsg

You can't say that because if Mark had of allowed Fisi to slide by on that corner, Fisi wouldn't have driven into him on the next corner or the one after that or in two laps time etc.

Hindsight is one thing but gazing into the crystal ball for answers is something entirely different.

I already have said it.

And if he'd overtaken on the inside at another corner he wouldn't have been in a postion to get hit as he had done when Ralf tried to take him at exactly the same corner. That isn't hindsight its common sense.

However I'm not saying Mark isn't capable I just think he's put himself under a bit of pressure so please don't be defensive.

alfasud · 9 Apr 2005, 08:30 (Ref:1273831)

I think that some people have lost sight of the topic.... which is about Webber getting a podium, not a rehash of the who was right and who was wrong at Sepang thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Would opinions on this incident have been different if Webber had been the one on the inside and slid into Fisichella?

I suspect that I would be likely to say that neither driver followed the best strategy for getting a podium.

Mark has been somewhat unlucky in some respects.... with hindsight maybe not agressive enough at Melbourne... although as already pointed out, he was breifly ahead of DC at one point, possible too eager at Sepang and it doesn't help if you go off the road at Bahrain although the car wasn't quite on the pace either.

Given that I don't see evidence for Mark being a worse driver than Heidfeld he should get there. The problem for Mark could be that the first three races might have been his best chance.... the Toyota is getting better, McLaren are starting to get it right and we've seen speed from the F2005. Imagine if Ferrari can get the reliabiliy and Bridgestone can provide a competitive tyre... back to regular Ferrari 1-2 finishes maybe?

On the other hand, Williams could make major advances and we might see a string of Webber and Heidfeld podiums and wins.

My guess.... he has about a 50:50 chance of a podium by the end of the year... I won't be shocked either way.

**Peter Mallett** · 9 Apr 2005, 08:35 (Ref:1273832)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfasud

I think that some people have lost sight of the topic.... which is about Webber getting a podium, not a rehash of the who was right and who was wrong at Sepang thread.

Misinterpretation there. Incidents like that are pertinent to whether we think he'll be successful. OTOH some suggest the he's just unlucky not to have finished on the podium already.

alfasud · 9 Apr 2005, 08:57 (Ref:1273841)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Misinterpretation there. Incidents like that are pertinent to whether we think he'll be successful. OTOH some suggest the he's just unlucky not to have finished on the podium already.

I think we are actually in agreement Peter.... some people in this thread were looking at the Sepang incident in terms of who was "right" or "wrong", with only one possible answer.

While I was suggesting that according to the tread topic, that regardless of who we think might have been in the wrong, we should be judging it on the basis of whether it demonstrated the correct approach for someone who is chasing a podium. In some respects he's unlucky.... but over the course of a season you tend make your own luck (within the limits of the car at least).

**Peter Mallett** · 9 Apr 2005, 09:02 (Ref:1273846)

Ah, apologies. Yes agree with you entirely.

Glen · 9 Apr 2005, 13:17 (Ref:1273976)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfasud

My guess.... he has about a 50:50 chance of a podium by the end of the year... I won't be shocked either way.

Eh? 50:50 by the end of the year? The odds on a Webber podium are nearly that EACH RACE. There are sixteen races to go! I'd say that even-money for a Webber WIN this season is not very good odds - for a podium it is lunacy. There is categorically NO WAY that Webber will fail to score a podium this year. Believe me. Or not, if you prefer to take the crazy role.

Airhead · 10 Apr 2005, 03:10 (Ref:1274372)

Yes he is sure to get a podium - and depending on circumstances may get a win in a race where there is high attrition.

**GTRMagic** · 10 Apr 2005, 04:09 (Ref:1274386)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMoffat

Yes he is sure to get a podium - and depending on circumstances may get a win in a race where there is high attrition.

Only in the first cycle of a BMW engine I would suggest....

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Apr 2005, 06:30 (Ref:1274415)

Moff! Welcome back.

Its interesting to me that there is almost the same amount of disappointment in this thread (from supporters and let's say interested observers) as there was with the lack of wins for JPM when he first arrived.

The thing with Mark is that he's been around for a while and there has been a tendency to use the "he can make a dog go better than anyone else" argument. Of course to date this season has demonstrated the opposite. He's been pretty well evenly matched by Nick over a race weekend.

And before we get into the "he was ahead before the off" arguments we must remember the old saw. To finish first first you have to finish.

mixxer · 10 Apr 2005, 06:35 (Ref:1274418)

On our local motorsport show they said Mark was disappointed with himself for going off at Bahrain, so the Bahrain incident was purely down to driver error.

Wrex · 10 Apr 2005, 14:01 (Ref:1274722)

Good point Peter, so there will be no BS and excuses from you when Mark has the most points at seasons end then will there?

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Apr 2005, 15:14 (Ref:1274743)

None at all. Which is why I said (and you conveniently avoided) "to date this season".

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Where's Webber's Speed?	oziengineer	Formula One	3	9 May 2005 11:53
Webber's Broken Rib	GTRMagic	Formula One	27	29 Mar 2005 02:37
Who gets Webber's seat?	enemy-ace	Formula One	39	30 Mar 2004 08:31
Webber's future	bart_jacobs	National & International Single Seaters	8	1 Feb 2002 05:27