Bell's Banter 2021

[justracing]

Originally Posted by grantp

. With the Donington full circuit having Pit Lane access off the loop thereby being considerably shorter and the times being slowed by rain anyway, several seconds were saved. Or so I recall.

So the inference is that he missed out Goddards? If so that wouldn't represent much of a time saving methinks?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by justracing

So the inference is that he missed out Goddards? If so that wouldn't represent much of a time saving methinks?

He set the outright lap record in doing so - 1m18.029s. His next-best tour was 1m20.413s, so it suggests at least a 2s saving. (There was no pit lane speed limit at the time).

https://www.formula1.com/en/results....test-laps.html

[justracing]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

He set the outright lap record in doing so - 1m18.029s. His next-best tour was 1m20.413s, so it suggests at least a 2s saving. (There was no pit lane speed limit at the time).

https://www.formula1.com/en/results....test-laps.html

Wow!

[crmalcolm]

If I may mention this in the context of the recent British GP.

The Race Directors' Event Notes contained the following:
'In the interests of sporting fairness and to facilitate the orderly conduct of the Event in accordance with the provisions of the FIA International Sporting Code, any car which does not cross the Control Line on the track to finish the sprint qualifying session or the race will be referred to the Stewards.' because entering the pits meant that you missed corners 16, 17 and 18 and crossed the control line earlier.

[S griffin]

That’s a good point. I think that’s sensible and I have heard it mentioned before. It would be interesting if someone did that not realising that it was the last, as some have done in the past

[grantp]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

He set the outright lap record in doing so - 1m18.029s. His next-best tour was 1m20.413s, so it suggests at least a 2s saving. (There was no pit lane speed limit at the time).

https://www.formula1.com/en/results....test-laps.html

Thanks for that detail crmalcolm.

Also the race what a wet/drying/wet/drying event as I recall from the vidoes. Or something like that.

So a gaggle of cars avoided on a damp, off-camber Goddards was probably worth the detour, lap record or not.

In addition the timing point would be quite early in the pit lane when using the old entrance off the loop. SO even if the passage through the pits was not at full racing speed the startline to start line distance would be quite a bit shorter and the off-loop pit entrance has much the same corner profile as Goddards had at the time, though somewhat narrower.

Personally I think they should still use it as the pit entrance for the full circuit to spice things up a bit ....

[GORDON STREETER]

Well back in Blighty for a while and out of quarantine after paying a fortune to Matt Handcock and his cronies !

[S griffin]

Glad you got back. At least now there are plans for fully vaccinated people not to quarantine. And we don’t have to worry about Matt Hancock anymore

[terence]

Originally Posted by bauble

There have always been 'dirty tricks' in motor racing, however, not all were underhand merely sneaky. Apparently when Fangio during his fantastic 1957 drive at the Nurburgring, when he chased down the two Ferraris of Hawthorn and Collins, Collins tried to hang on to Fangio. whereupon the Maserati drifted a little wide on one corner showering the Ferrari with loose stones from the verge. One stone cracked Collin's goggles causing him to drop back. Hawthorn said it was a trick from Juan's early days racing in South American road races.

In 1955 during the Spanish Grand Prix, Hawthorn was involved in a duel with Harry Schell, wishing to get on un-interrupted Mike used his knowledge of Harry to get rid of him. Approaching a slower corner he braked late, and waved Schell by, knowing he would not be able to resist the chance. Harry duly ended up amongst the straw bales, un-harmed but dealt with.

Dodgy passes, 'unfortunate accidents' are still with us.

Maybe that's where Black Jack Brabham learnt his dirty trick.?

[grantp]

I dug out a series of videos on YouTube that show the full '93 Donington race.

It was even more chaotic than I thought. However, the Senna drive through did indeed look like a "we are not ready" moment for the team.

Murray Walker and James Hunt picked up on that in the commentary and discussed possible repercussions.

All in all a very strange race day.

Thinking about comments on tactics employed by drivers and teams in the earliest days of top level Grand Prix racing, if one considers that some teams often seemed to run "spare" cars that allowed them the possibility to swap their faster drivers in broken cars into a sound, less stressed car in a slightly lower position in the race, it seems fair to see that as part of a race plan. Not necessarily just a bit of luck and a heroic drive to the finish.

Judging by the few pit lane shots in the Donington Race video the pits must have been chaotic on the day. How things change - albeit we are nearing 30 years since the event so observing changes to rules and regulations is hardly a surprise.

[bauble]

the Senna drive through did indeed look like a "we are not ready" moment for the team.

If it was a 'mistake' surely Senna would have pitted next lap or so?

sneaky lot these GP teams.

[S griffin]

Don't forget there was no pit speed limit in 93, so no wonder Senna was able to record the fastest lap from that

[grantp]

Originally Posted by bauble

If it was a 'mistake' surely Senna would have pitted next lap or so?

sneaky lot these GP teams.

Yes, but by then they could see that there was no benefit to lap times and it was likely that it would start to dry out again.

Also, having had one delay due to wheel changing issues and heard of others with the same sort of problem, the fewer changes the better.

Having a set of new wets available to cover the last 10 laps, whether wet or dry, would have been a bonus. Unpredictable, possibly, but still a bonus.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Don't forget there was no pit speed limit in 93, so no wonder Senna was able to record the fastest lap from that

The fastest lap, iirc, was his "in" lap.

Presumably some of the other teams would have had similar anomalies for their lap times.

[The Fat Clerk]

Originally Posted by grantp

The fastest lap, iirc, was his "in" lap.

Presumably some of the other teams would have had similar anomalies for their lap times.

Good job Mr Horner wasn't about in those days

[crmalcolm]

[S griffin]

Ironically Sega was sponsoring their main rival Williams and even had a squashed hedgehog sticker on their McLaren

[GORDON STREETER]

I had to renew my car insurance policy and went on one of these internet comparison sites (Confused.com) and found it £50 cheaper.
I then phoned up my insurers and remarked about the difference, and without saying anything they immediately dropped the £50 ! I suppose if I had spent more time looking around I could have got it even cheaper ?

[Peter Mallett]

Just did the same with Meerkats and saved a couple of hundred quid on home insurance.

[Lancsbreaker]

Last few times I've checked insurance I've done the comparison sites and then tried Direct line......all 4 of our vehicles now with Direct Line.....

[grantp]

I think the insurance companies always expect you to shop around these days. Most of the contact companies seem to have "panel" of insurers, sometimes parts of the same parent company perhaps, who can do "deals" for "new customers".

It's all fair game.

The only concern one might have is whether, in the event of a claim, the claim and assessment process is painless. And that is difficult to know unless one has existing and likely recent experience.

The energy industry, on the other hand, also expects customer churn and it's pretty much a given that the majority of suppliers are, at best, serially incompetent in the area of administration. However, some may be more incompetent than others and any price reduction possible would need to clearly offset whatever additional aggravation one might eventually experience.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Just did the same with Meerkats and saved a couple of hundred quid on home insurance.

I saved £900 on our house insurance (making sure it was exactly the same).
The funny thing was that I was with one of the biggest names in house insurance and I decided to do a click around to see what others could do and found the saving on an agents site.
After going for it and paying I received the new policy through the post and much to my surprise it was with the original firm I was with !!
I had already been talking to my original insurers for a while who wouldn't budge on what I thought was too much money considering that I had never had a claim.
So WTF is going on ? It must mean that my old insurers had kept tabs on me and knew that I had spent thousands with them over the years and had never had to pay anything out and didn't want to lose me ?
I wish I had had a go years ago !!!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

The funny thing was that I was with one of the biggest names in house insurance and I decided to do a click around to see what others could do and found the saving on an agents site.
After going for it and paying I received the new policy through the post and much to my surprise it was with the original firm I was with !! So WTF is going on ?

Something you'll never see here, there are "agreements" between companies… As to obtain a better fee with the same company for the same house, guarantees and subscriber dont even think about it!

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Something you'll never see here, there are "agreements" between companies… As to obtain a better fee with the same company for the same house, guarantees and subscriber dont even think about it!

Gerard,

That sounds familiar in many ways ... but it reminded me that earlier this week I bumped into an old work colleague and friend, much to my surprise as I thought he was living in France.

We had time for a short chat and I was amazed to realize that it was 17 years ago that they bought a property to build a business around a fishing lake with accommodation available for offering fishing holidays.

When they decided it was time to reverse their dream it took a long time to sell the property with a French buyer pulling out 3 days before they were due to complete the sales just before Xmas last year.

Fortunately they had a German buyer also interested and the sale was back on within hours but took 6 months to process with considerable income for both the Frenach and German legal representatives and their interpreting services.

He volunteered the information that among the reasons that they decided to sell up was the rising costs of everything and reduction in standards that followed the rising costs. He offered some example of food (vegetables) where the prices sounded high compared to the UK and the quality on offer was very poor for the price. Very different to 17 years ago, in his opinion.

Can that be true for the whole country or was he just unlucky with his location? (I'm not sure where he was - i'll ask him next time I see him.)

The other challenges included getting anyone to quote for work they needed doing. And then getting them to turn up. And if they started a job, getting them to finish it. I would imagine that became more and more of an issue for him during the time they were there as age would be taking its toll on a the ability to keep up with the needs of the business. He has always been someone to pull up his sleeves and get things done. Not so easy as time passes.

Getting building and maintenance work done in France has long been the subject of tales of woe from ex-pats. However, his comments about food standards surprised me.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I saved £900 on our house insurance (making sure it was exactly the same).
The funny thing was that I was with one of the biggest names in house insurance and I decided to do a click around to see what others could do and found the saving on an agents site.
After going for it and paying I received the new policy through the post and much to my surprise it was with the original firm I was with !!
I had already been talking to my original insurers for a while who wouldn't budge on what I thought was too much money considering that I had never had a claim.
So WTF is going on ? It must mean that my old insurers had kept tabs on me and knew that I had spent thousands with them over the years and had never had to pay anything out and didn't want to lose me ?
I wish I had had a go years ago !!!

I suspect a lot of acquisitions and mergers have occurred in the industry, not always visible to the masses if some of the names have not been well known in the public domain.

Plus the head honchos at most of the big companies only stay a few years and a change of leadership often means a change of business strategy.

If their merger activity has not managed to amalgamate IT systems and Marketing arrangements since the event occurred the potential for seemingly illogical situations, like the one you describe, is extremely high.