[LM24] Noise reduction at Le Mans 24 hour

[the menace]

After reading the new rules published by the ACO, I was shocked to see that the noise levels are to be reduced. The maximum level will be reduced from 113 dB to 110 dB. This concerns me very much as the level and diversity of the sounds of the race engines are a huge part of the magic of Lemans. Obviously the cars must be quick but if they are all as quiet as the current crop of Diesel racers the Lemans experience will be dulled to the point that it could turn people away from the gates. I don't see the relevance of noise reduction in motor sport. I'd like to hear your views

[johntt]

Originally Posted by the menace

After reading the new rules published by the ACO, I was shocked to see that the noise levels are to be reduced.

The maximum level will be reduced from 113 dB to 110 dB. This concerns me very much as the level and diversity of the sounds of the race engines are a huge part of the magic of Lemans.

Obviously the cars must be quick but if they are all as quiet as the current crop of Diesel racers the Lemans experience will be dulled to the point that it could turn people away from the gates.

I don't see the relevance of noise reduction in motor sport. I'd like to hear your views

Its only 3db, the change in noise level will be imperceptible. Its true that if all the cars were silent then people would turn away, and the ACO will be well aware of this. A V8 will sound like a V8 and a V10 will sound like a V10 whatever the Db within reason.

As has been pointed out by others, the IMSA GTP cars had a much lower noise limit than we have now, and even then they struggled to reach the limit (I have heard a funny anecdote of James Weaver driving over the noise detector to get a high reading), and yet people look back on the IMSA GTP days with very fond memories.

Noise reduction has some relevence, the way i see it, it needs to be about quality of noise rather than quantity.

For example, the Cosworth turbos used in CART/Champ Car sounded brilliant but weren't overly loud, meanwhile the IRL Honda engine sounds awful and is incredibly loud.

For Le Mans the cars could run quite loudly but these cars have to run at other places as well. Cranking the cars up for Le Mans would come across as a bit disrepectful and arrogant and cause complaints from the locals, and we all know the power of stupid people/NIMBYs in large groups.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by the menace

After reading the new rules published by the ACO, I was shocked to see that the noise levels are to be reduced. The maximum level will be reduced from 113 dB to 110 dB. This concerns me very much as the level and diversity of the sounds of the race engines are a huge part of the magic of Lemans. Obviously the cars must be quick but if they are all as quiet as the current crop of Diesel racers the Lemans experience will be dulled to the point that it could turn people away from the gates. I don't see the relevance of noise reduction in motor sport. I'd like to hear your views

That is exactly my view menace ..... what a thread to open up your first post .

I think its a bloody shame , the noise is part of the whole act .

Bring it on I say !!!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by johntt

Its only 3db

Only 3 db ..... this year !!! ..... whats the plan for the future ?

You can only take so much away before it begins to loose its charm ..... and it is , slowly , and obviously Im not the only one who thinks so .

It would be interesting to add a pole to this thread .

No quad rotor , no more wild screaming Judd GV4 or a Ferrari 333SP V12 .

Is that REALLY ok with you ?

[AU N EGL]

It should be a minimum of 100 dbs too. Get some NOISE into those diesels

[johntt]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Only 3 db ..... this year !!! ..... whats the plan for the future ?

You can only take so much away before it begins to loose its charm ..... and it is , slowly , and obviously Im not the only one who thinks so .

It would be interesting to add a pole to this thread .

No quad rotor , no more wild screaming Judd GV4 or a Ferrari 333SP V12 .

Is that REALLY ok with you ?

Would you like to try reading the rest of my post?

Originally Posted by Au N EGL

It should be a minimum of 100 dbs too. Get some NOISE into those diesels

Agree with a minimum noise for petrol engines, but for diesels it would conflict with what Audi and Pug are trying to do in terms of marketing their diesel road cars. On balance its better that the diesels are quiet as diesel engines don't sound all that appealing at full chat.

[GT2-R]

Originally Posted by johntt

Its only 3db.

The dB is a logarithmic scale . In fact -3dB = 1000 times less intensity of the noise. The difference between 60 and 63 dB f.e. is negligible for human beings but the difference between 110 and 113 dB really matters. 110 dB is still a lot of noise for most people who aren't familiar with racing but I hope the limit will stay at 113 dB!

[Cuttlefish]

Originally Posted by GT2-R

The dB is a logarithmic scale . In fact -3dB = 1000 times less intensity of the noise. The difference between 60 and 63 dB f.e. is negligible for human beings but the difference between 110 and 113 dB really matters. 110 dB is still a lot of noise for most people who aren't familiar with racing but I hope the limit will stay at 113 dB!

The idea here is right, but the math isn't quite right.

-3 dB is half the intensity. It doesn't matter whether you start at 113 or 63, it's half the intensity no matter where on the scale.

[HORNDAWG]

Here is a comparative chart for those of us who are laymen. Noise


L.P.

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Here is a comparative chart for those of us who are laymen. Noise


L.P.

So using the link as a guide, LeMans cars are still 13x louder than normal cars!

[Justin Moran]

That should read 8x not 13 (Doh! )

[the menace]

Thanks for the replies. I'm pleased that this subject has drawn some interest as i feel that the sound of a racing engine is almost as important as the speed of the car. Personally I feel that if you erode away either the speed or the noise, you will surely damage motor sport.
In the years immediately after the demise of Group C in the early 90's, and the beautifully intoxicating sounds of the Jaguar's, Mazda's, the BRM to mention just a few and right at the end the screaming Peugeot 905's. I thought that something was missing. Yes lemans was still great but the adrenaline rush was not quite there. It didn't quite hit the spot if you get what i mean. Over the years there have been other fantastic sounding cars for instance the Ferrari 333sp, Mclaren F1, Mercedes, Corvette and of cause the iconic Panoz GT1. These cars have all helped to perpetuate the greatness of the race and make it "worthwhile".
I was standing at the entrance to Indianapolis corner when Panoz made it's debut at lemans. To hear it howling towards me and thundering through the trees was simply awe inspiring. This sort of spine chilling motor sport spectacle will be a thing of the past if noise levels are reduced.
Incidentally 3db will half the volume.

[MulsanneMike]

Well historically, sportscars have been mandated to 108 db. This was the db limit during the IMSA GTP (and I'm pretty sure Group C days as well) and IMSA WSC days. Frankly I couldnt' see any difference in the noise level between a Intrepid GTP, Ferrari 333SP, or a Lola-Judd. They were all plenty loud. To bemoan the 3 db noise cut comes off as a little disingenuous. There seems to be the perception that the cars will now be quiet...they will not be.

[the menace]

Hmmmmmmm Mulsannemike

A little disingenuous. I'm not sure if i agree with that. But i've taken your comments on board and hope you're right never the less.

[The Badger]

Im sick of all this green crap . Yaknow , its all well and easy to tell people what they should do , but governments are still responsible for dumping crap into the sea .

Its nice for Mr.Minister to sit in his 5 star restaurant eating his cavier and truffles , when the sea is 400 miles away and he doesnt have to think about it .

I know its the future of the world had probably has to be in the long run , but Im still sick to death of hearing about how motorsport in so damaging to our future . If people are so worried , let them cancel their anual holiday to the canaries or swim there !!! Can you see folk canceling their flight cuz of air polution ? ..... Pffff !!!

I say bring back big loud engines with absolutly no silencing , and go over the white lines if it works for you .

[deggis]

the menace, you might be interested:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109726

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

It should be a minimum of 100 dbs too. Get some NOISE into those diesels

ACO guy Plassart said "Yes, a minimum and maximum is needed" but doesn't look like this idea has been transformed into the regulations...

Originally Posted by The Badger

Only 3 db ..... this year !!! ..... whats the plan for the future ?

I think it was gradual change to 110 db by 2011.

Originally Posted by johntt

For Le Mans the cars could run quite loudly but these cars have to run at other places as well. Cranking the cars up for Le Mans would come across as a bit disrepectful and arrogant and cause complaints from the locals, and we all know the power of stupid people/NIMBYs in large groups.

Awesome way to thank the event that has brought as much as money to the city during last 30 years than olympics would have brought.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by deggis

Awesome way to thank the event that has brought as much as money to the city during last 30 years than olympics would have brought.

I'm aware of that, in fact 2/3 of the regional product comes from the race.

However NIMBYs are incredibily stupid, short-sighted people.

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Well historically, sportscars have been mandated to 108 db. This was the db limit during the IMSA GTP (and I'm pretty sure Group C days as well) and IMSA WSC days. Frankly I couldnt' see any difference in the noise level between a Intrepid GTP, Ferrari 333SP, or a Lola-Judd. They were all plenty loud. To bemoan the 3 db noise cut comes off as a little disingenuous. There seems to be the perception that the cars will now be quiet...they will not be.

Good to hear the opinion of someone technically minded on the subject.

Originally Posted by The Badger

I'm sick of all this green crap . Yaknow , its all well and easy to tell people what they should do , but governments are still responsible for dumping crap into the sea .

Its nice for Mr.Minister to sit in his 5 star restaurant eating his cavier and truffles, when the sea is 400 miles away and he doesnt have to think about it .

I know its the future of the world had probably has to be in the long run , but Im still sick to death of hearing about how motorsport in so damaging to our future . If people are so worried, let them cancel their anual holiday to the canaries or swim there !!! Can you see folk canceling their flight cuz of air polution ? ..... Pffff !!!

I say bring back big loud engines with absolutly no silencing, and go over the white lines if it works for you.

I agree with what you are saying and engines without silencing would be amazing, but we can't just put our hands over our ears and sing "la la la not my problem" as regards the green issue because the global political elite doesn't see it that way.

20 years ago in the UK you would never have thought that smoking would be banned in public places, yet last July it was. Recently fox hunting got banned even though it only done by a tiny percentage of the population (a minority sport, like racing).

Racing needs to adapt in order to survive without losing what draws people to the sport, namely the speed and the sound.

[the menace]

Thanks DEGGIS i did find it interesting. It seems that i have reheated an older story. However, It's still a hot topic.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by the menace

Thanks DEGGIS i did find it interesting. It seems that i have reheated an older story. However, It's still a hot topic.

Hmm, maybe luke warm!


L.P.

[dj choc ice]

most people know my views on noise, im of a similar opinion to badger and im very cynical of the new noise regs and, in particular the new LMP EVO rules which come across as being incredibly uninspiring and dull.

i say, run the cars unsilenced, people will complain wether the cars are silenced or not so lets do whats best for us race fans. take for example the zytek 07S2, silenced this is a great sounding car and it is pretty loud, but at petit lemans in 2007 this car ran with silencers, it was noticeably louder and it had a much more fruity exhaust note as well.

the joy of sportscar racing is the wall of sound of 50 unsilenced sportscars blasting past, you can feel the noise in your chest and quite frankly its a ****ing awesome feeling, it is truly inspiring to get to witness a judd GV4 engined LMP scream past, or a unsilenced 996 GT3 RSR, woooft now that was an amazing sound.

compared to the more seasoned posters on here who have witnessed the gloden era of sports car racing in the group C and 3.5 litre era, i cant say much but what i will say is this, i am NOT inspired by whispering silenced race cars, i am inspired by ear shredding, flame spitting screaming monsters, dome S101 judd GV4 V10, Pescarolo C60 hybrid with the old 5.0 V10, Zytek 04S, Panoz GTR1, lamborghini murcielago RGT, porsche 996 GT3 RSR, mazda 787B, ferrari 333SP, mercedes CLR, Jaguar XJR14 and Spyker C8 Targa GT.

to me those cars are the be all and end all, these are stunning race cars, they look fabulous, they make your jaw drop in awe, they put a big huge grin your face when they blast past, and do you know what? this is what race cars should be, they should make people go "****ing hell!!!" or "WOOOOAAAAHHHH!!!!", cars like above have character, they have soul and by being loud and barmy these cars have fans and followers now.

Motorsport is the most spectacular and fabulous show on earth, and sportscar racing imo is at the top, now Mr.Poissenot, plassart etc and the ACO, lets keep it that way, stuff hybrids, lets have some big and small screaming, thundering unsilenced petrol race engines please

[AU N EGL]

New rules say max of 112 dbs

[the menace]

The opinion seems to be split between those that feel very passionate about the intoxicating sound of race engines, as i most certainly am, and those that are not. I'm not saying that one is "into" motor sport more than the other as we all have different personalities and therefore different ways of taking enjoyment from the sport. However, from the last two replies I get the impression that one has been to Lemans and one hasn't.
DJ CHOC ICE - I 100% agree with your views except maybe, regrettably, some sort of compromise with inevitably have to be struck in the future.

[Satorian]

I like the sound, but I don't like the volume. 112db is still plenty loud for me.

[The Badger]

When I got interested in sporstcars , they were loud and proud . Now they are but a shadow of what could be .

We will never hear a screaming 4L V10 again , or a quad rotor . Is that right ?

That is my complaint , and a valid one at that , or not ?