Delta Wing Discussion ONLY

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TF110

Serious question, when was the last time this car finished a race? And when it did finish, how many laps (time) was it down? It seems like a wasted effort if every race it fails to finish. Imo, Panoz should just invest in a regular DP car engine package.

I remember when Renault entered F1 in '76 with their car/turbo engine and evryone thought it was a flash in the pan....just saying.

[JoestForEver]

The problem with DW is no one simply want it to win. If they do, a simple BoP break will do, but currently there isn't any of that. As there is no reference to measure how much work needed to make DW a competitive package, the performance of it is totally dependent on politics.

[wdave0]

Damn-it finished. If it had run trouble free could'a been a contendah. Shocking to see such low numbers on the position lights!

[optica]

Originally Posted by TF110

Serious question, when was the last time this car finished a race? And when it did finish, how many laps (time) was it down? It seems like a wasted effort if every race it fails to finish. Imo, Panoz should just invest in a regular DP car engine package.

Panoz has always enjoyed doing his own thing so going a regular route is unlikely. The first Deltawing (with Nissan) finished Petit LM OK in 2012 so it is becoming difficult to understand why reliability is so difficult to find now. The coupe version seems more of a problem than the roadster though apart from the gearbox none of the issues that take it out seem very major so aren't insurmountable. They deserve a result for persevering with it.

[brandscooper]

Originally Posted by TF110

Serious question, when was the last time this car finished a race? And when it did finish, how many laps (time) was it down? It seems like a wasted effort if every race it fails to finish. Imo, Panoz should just invest in a regular DP car engine package.

Road America last year in 3rd place (in P1) 5th overall. Of course that was the open top version. The closed top has never finished a race.

[TF110]

I remember RA, just wondered if there was any finish without major issue since. Panoz ran an lmp1 before so its not like he has always been the oddball. I hardly see the point, unless he has confidence in it, or no other hobby?

[The Badger]

Just watched Sebring a couple days ago ..... the Delta wing is still vile .

[Machin]

The next race on the Tudor championship is the tight and twisty Longbeach road course.... and the Deltawing isn't going....From Twitter:-

Originally Posted by From Twitter

@DeltaWingRace why is everyone's favorite delta-shaped sportscar not going to Longbeach?

Originally Posted by @DeltaWingRace

The track doesn't really suit us, esp given the fact that we only have one chassis and build our own parts...

Panoz's plan was to sell customer versions of the car.... but that is going to be difficult if by the team's own admission, it doesn't really work at all the tracks the championship visits....

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Machin

The next race on the Tudor championship is the tight and twisty Longbeach road course.... and the Deltawing isn't going....From Twitter:-


Panoz's plan was to sell customer versions of the car.... but that is going to be difficult if by the team's own admission, it doesn't really work at all the tracks the championship visits....

I would call that a lack of vision. Street courses are notoriously difficult to pass on. They have a car that is fast in a straight line, and doesn't corner as well. Given most of the corners are no-passing zones anyway, they could have a car that could pass easier in the passing zones and if it's blocking the car behind in the turns, it would annoy the driver behind, but they couldn't do anything about it.

Figuring out how to make it faster around a tight street circuit would be a worthy line of development.

[TF110]

Isnt it the turning radius or lack of it the reason?

[miatanut]

There was fan speculation that it couldn't make the hairpin.

I don't think anyone associated with the car ever claimed that.

[TF110]

"Doesn't suit our car" sounds like a problem making certain types of turns. What other reason could there be? Sebring is just as bumpy so that aint it.

[miatanut]

It's a car which is definitely best for circuits with long straights, like Le Mans & Spa. It would definitely have a bigger challenge making a good lap time on a street circuit with lots of low and medium speed corners, but I think that's just Panoz running from a challenge. A proper racing car needs to be competitive over a season with different types of tracks. Maybe it means they need to work on their torque vectoring concept, which could help it get around those slow corners quicker. Maybe it means they need to come up with a higher downforce variant. If they stick with under-body downforce, they could still have something a good deal more efficient than the other cars.

It's a concept that deserves further development. If it ends up being a dud, it's a dud. They should give it a chance first.

[optica]

In all motorsport it is competition that forces development. If there was a Deltawing class with a dozen or similar more cars competing against each other you could be sure the concept would be much better sorted by now for you would have 12 times the people and 12 times the money working on it. While there is only one car and a limited budget it makes sense to concentrate on circuits which it is best suited to.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Machin

The next race on the Tudor championship is the tight and twisty Longbeach road course.... and the Deltawing isn't going....From Twitter:-





Panoz's plan was to sell customer versions of the car.... but that is going to be difficult if by the team's own admission, it doesn't really work at all the tracks the championship visits....

One wonders who was ever going to buy one.....

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by rich07

One wonders who was ever going to buy one.....

And what's the point in fielding one if they don't intend to run it at all the races?

What would have happened in IndyCar had adopted it instead of the Dallara car? Would the Long Beach GP cease to exist?

[brandscooper]

Lets just clear one thing up! The car can make the Long Beach hairpin turn. Even Indy cars struggle there.

[Maelochs]

N one knows if the car can make the turn as it has never tested there, to my knowledge, and the fact that even IndyCar have problems there in fact would indicate against, not for, the DWing's capacity.

I would assume the car can physically negotiate the corner but would need to go so slowly that it would either stop the race or never get a break in traffic.

I have been a DWing fan but from what I have seen so far, the car simply cannot corner on par with its competitors, and thus is not really a contender in a road-racing series.

Fifth at Petit was great, but if the car only works at certain courses it is not really up to par with cars which can run fast anywhere.

[icemachine]

Found some footage of a class of Deltawings practicing cornering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwUoRLnbWTs

[brandscooper]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

N one knows if the car can make the turn as it has never tested there, to my knowledge, and the fact that even IndyCar have problems there in fact would indicate against, not for, the DWing's capacity.

I would assume the car can physically negotiate the corner but would need to go so slowly that it would either stop the race or never get a break in traffic.

I have been a DWing fan but from what I have seen so far, the car simply cannot corner on par with its competitors, and thus is not really a contender in a road-racing series.

Fifth at Petit was great, but if the car only works at certain courses it is not really up to par with cars which can run fast anywhere.

Why do people still argue against the DW's cornering abilities? The concept behind the car is to do similar lap times to more conventional cars with much less power and weight. The fact that it's cornering capacity is SLIGHTLY reduced is meaningless as it makes up the time on the straight. That's the point. The fact is that its cornering ability is really not that far off anyway, and as the team keep plugging away at it it's getting better. This car has less power than any other on the track. Restrict a DP to 300hp and it would be a mobile chicane. There's nothing particularly clever about shoving an 800bhp v8 into a tube frame car and going quickly around a track. Arguing that taking weight off a DP/P2 car would produce the same result is a pointless argument! Of course it would - thats what the DW proves. Yes it was built to no regs, but for better or worse it has been allowed to race so lets accept that and constructively criticize it rather than making baseless assumptions.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by brandscooper

Why do people still argue against the DW's cornering abilities? The concept behind the car is to do similar lap times to more conventional cars with much less power and weight. The fact that it's cornering capacity is SLIGHTLY reduced is meaningless as it makes up the time on the straight. That's the point.

Exactly! The car makes its lap time a different way. The Panoz version has been pretty unimpressive, but the Nissan ZEOD will probably pick up at least where the original DW left off and show it to be a competitive approach.

I like cars that corner well but the truth is, when you're racing, it's much better to have a car that can pass on the straight.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Exactly! The car makes its lap time a different way. The Panoz version has been pretty unimpressive, but the Nissan ZEOD will probably pick up at least where the original DW left off and show it to be a competitive approach.

I like cars that corner well but the truth is, when you're racing, it's much better to have a car that can pass on the straight.

I'd like to see all three versions in the same race.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'd like to see all three versions in the same race.

That would be the day!!!!

(but something tells me perhaps it will never happen)....

[Flash02]

Originally Posted by optica

Panoz has always enjoyed doing his own thing so going a regular route is unlikely. The first Deltawing (with Nissan) finished Petit LM OK in 2012 so it is becoming difficult to understand why reliability is so difficult to find now. The coupe version seems more of a problem than the roadster though apart from the gearbox none of the issues that take it out seem very major so aren't insurmountable. They deserve a result for persevering with it.

What you see now as the Delta wing and what you saw as the Nissan Delta Wing mechanically are two different machines. When Nissan left the program they took their engine, Élan Motor sports had to totally redesign and reengineer a new power plant. The problems with the engine had a lot to do with cooling issues, the engine is somewhat of a parts bin...a Mazda DI turbo head, Elan's block, apparently a Ford fuel pump, I'm sure the list goes on. Perhaps they will get it together, though I would hold my breath.

[optica]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Exactly! The car makes its lap time a different way. The Panoz version has been pretty unimpressive, but the Nissan ZEOD will probably pick up at least where the original DW left off and show it to be a competitive approach.

I like cars that corner well but the truth is, when you're racing, it's much better to have a car that can pass on the straight.

It has to be of relevance to the Deltawing just what performance is achieved by the Zeod given the fact that Bowlby is at the helm, it is the next generation of the concept and has some mega-bucks available to finance its development. Hopefully the Panoz effort might eventually be able to benefit from any advances the Zeod reveals (law suits allowing).
As it is I think the Deltawing remains a worthy attempt at persevering with a radical concept that still has undiscovered potential. All other teams in the series have the benefit of running cars that have evolved from decades of development in design, engineering, tire technology and many thousands of race/test laps. To compare a single vehicle using so much unorthodox technology and being raced on a relative shoestring with the ultra-developed cars it races against requires making some allowances.
If nothing else it adds interest to field and satisfies the strange urge that some people have to hate things that don't conform.