HSCC Oulton Park Gold Cup

[simon drabble]

yes please lets not turn this into another Appendix K or not thread - otherwise we will be on MGB engine sizes and Spa 5 Hours before we know whats happened!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Mark Griffiths

It's becoming just another HSCC event. It needs something to perk it up a bit- a few years back you could see the likes of Moss, Salvadori, Stewart, Brabham, Redman etc. There didn't seem to be any kind of focal point- certainly not the Lola display.

I have to agree with you on that. One of the problems, I feel is the timing of the meeting - too close to Goodwood. I'd like to see it moved to the traditional Gold Cup spring weekend.

As for the parade...very half-hearted, certainly not worth losing my lunch break for!

[John Turner]

Right, those last 2 posts mean that I am now going to merge this (the U2TC BMW no94) with the main Oulton Park thread.

[Zola]

The BMW in question was Steve Markeys - not a rent a ride... I do agree that not many of us could touch the first 3 in the U2 race but i thought we all had our own battles within the race - we were amongst the other alfas, Mini and the other BM's and i thought the racing between Madge and Abarth was excellent... (something for everyone)...

[brands]

I was hugely disappointed with the whole event.

We were told Saturday was a total no go for spectators and the camp site entry was from 6PM on Saturday only....the three of us duly turned up around 5.30, from various parts of the country, to find at least 100 tents, motorhomes and caravans had pitched and there was little ground left and none that wasn't on a slope. Some were marshals and their families but most appeared not.

Travelling a round trip of 400 miles for one and a half days racing isn't worth it. Combine that with the lack of any MSV patrol to control the several drunken morons with open fires, out of control kids and noise until the early hours on Sunday night, the awful and un-organised rally stage and most importantly the poor entry. No wonder the HSCC didn't have the nerve to publish it on their website.

The Gold Cup meeting of last weekend was a smaller and less exciting event than Combe Classic weekend or either of the HSCC meetings at Silverstone this season.


/rant

[SZRacer]

OK Zef, I stand corrected, and as a repsonse, offer my 'report from near the back of the grid...'.

Overall another good Gold Cup race meeting. I agree that crowds seemed a little lower than last year, but still very healthy for a 'club' race meeting. Also, all the spectators I spoke to (and the same goes for my experience of previous years) are hugely enthusiastic, very appreciative of having the cars there, and generally much friendlier and more chatty than 'darn saaarrrth'!

The race entries seemed healthy to me (with the exception of U2TC, which seemed to be missing a lot of 'the usual suspects' - they don't know what they're missing). The HSCC organisation were their usual friendly self, but seemed strangely muted and downbeat - they've had some personnel departures recently, and the mood was more sombre than for instance the Silverstone Classic.

I agree that the meeting felt a bit flat. It needs proper commentary tannoys in the paddock, and by Chequers. Some large screen TVs, again by Chequers, would help. The Lola display was in the wrong place. Surely it would have been better opposite Chequers, instead of the display of fold-up shelters..?!

From a racing point of view, I enjoyed watching the Guards Trophy (the splitting of grids might even tempt me out in future), F5000 and Saloons.

My race in Nick's GTA in U2TC was curtailed by a rapidly disintegrating rotor arm and dizzy. Our usual slow times (well, Nick's car is driven to and from the circuit and is in a mild-ish state of tune) were even slower, as the mis-fire moved ever lower down the rev range. Alas, I never got my stint in the car.

In HRS, I had a mediocre practice (still problems with my front drums), byt a better race, as I managed to get past Tim Burrett's Aurelia, hold off an Alpine, and thanks to a Turner spinning off, won my class! Most importantly for me (and this is the reason I go racing) I had a RACE with other cars, rather than a lonely procession!

There's more to come from the car, performance-wise, and hell, if I can get the brakes sorted to give me the confidence to brake later, I might even break 2.20 next year!

Not much for some of you, I know, but my little car's only got 120BHP, and the car weighs 830kg. We won't even mention my weight added on....!

My weekend was finished off nicely when instead of taking the M6 route home, I decided to go back via the 'scenic route' through Shropshire, which only took my 2.5 hours and was stunning!

James

Originally Posted by zefarelly

it may be possibly slightly off topic, but its not often we get direct comparissons and it is valid conversation about 2 specific OPGC races.

Since no one else has anything to say, constructive or otherwise, on the whole weekend I'm more than happy for it to continue.

oh, I thought the Guards split was a goiod idea, all the HSCC need to do now is Offer a pre66 App K enduro or 3 to the mix instead of offering their spare track time out.

[TorqueWench]

Personally, I didn't think the entry was low, and there seemed to be plenty of spectators as well.

The thing that impressed me most was the number of trainee marshals - and especially the young ones at Assembly, learning to put the cars in their grid slots and doing the paddock tannoy etc.

They were very impressive, and well done BRSCC for getting lots of them along - we all need them to keep racing. There was also lots of jolly waving from the posts after our final race (Classic Racing Cars)- thanks due to all of them!

[zefarelly]

we have some response! and thanks for the report James

I heard the GTA sputtering up Dear leap and pull in, and the car looked great, especially after the 'parking scratch' it incurred at SPa last year

I'm not sure why so many pulled their entries from U2TC (I abstained on the grounds of cost, and a lack of direct competition, and it is out there, just not racing) its a double edged sword for U2TC, are high entry fees to protect the investment? or does Carol risk loosing money still on a 'near full' grid with lower entries? . . . its not my business but if it prices too many entrants out then it can't be viable either way.

I couldn't comment on the event being flat, the paddock was busy enough, the grids seemed full enough, with reserves as has been stated, the Lola display was poor, I'm sure the classic car display and pikey fair helped, rally stage did little harm, I quite enjoyed watching Escorts spin at 20 mph for ten minutes or so, its another attraction along with the go karts etc that makes a fuller day out for people/families. OP is a good spectator circuit as well.

[zefarelly]

Good point and well said, I didn't relaise they where all trainees, but there where plenty of fresh keen faces, well done all, and thanks

Originally Posted by TorqueWench

Personally, I didn't think the entry was low, and there seemed to be plenty of spectators as well.

The thing that impressed me most was the number of trainee marshals - and especially the young ones at Assembly, learning to put the cars in their grid slots and doing the paddock tannoy etc.

They were very impressive, and well done BRSCC for getting lots of them along - we all need them to keep racing. There was also lots of jolly waving from the posts after our final race (Classic Racing Cars)- thanks due to all of them!

[James Murray]

Thought the event was a bit lacking compared to previous years and was effectively an HSCC event as Mark already mooted, which is no bad thing but there was always a bit more to offer the spectator in previous years. The Lola celebration was very muted and it would be nice to see some HGPCA races there again or 50's sports cars as there have been in the past.

From a personal point of view it was a joy to drive the the track again, a real buzz, but I had a complete mare and missed my race by putting 3rd gear in the wrong way round. Wont do that again. It was also a relief to see that Stuart Tilley escaped without injury from a very nasty shunt at Island bend.

[Mark Griffiths]

"It was also a relief to see that Stuart Tilley escaped without injury from a very nasty shunt at Island bend."

Absolutely agree with those sentiments. I broke down at Shell "out" and from the marshal's post you could see the trail from the initial "off" to the horrendous impact with the tyre wall. It really is good to know he's OK after such a big accident.

[morninggents]

Just to comment on Zef's postings we have asked HSCC if they would have two podiums, one for HRSR and one for App K. They responded that time constraints would not allow that and they pointed out that in 2007 season App K cars were very well represented in the first 3 anyway. I did note, however, that the 'podium' at Oulton was at the parc ferme / paddock junction and not on the pit road so two podiums there would have been OK. We will take it up with the HSCC again.

In terms of HRSR / App K comparability until we regularly get a good spread of App K cars at all races it is difficult to know what should be done to the HRSR classes, if anything, to even things up. I think that Churchill/Baldwin and Ebdon/Watson in the U2TC race were on a par with Roger Godfrey's Mini times on the Monday, but neither of the former stayed on for Monday's race unfortunately.

Generally the Monday races were entertaining and I think the HSCC are to be commended with the mix of racing cars, sports/GTs and saloons and splitting the Guards Trophy races was a good idea too. Perhaps a higher profile celebrity 'event' off track may have been a welcome addition.

[morninggents]

The HSCC/HRSR have this year got a good mix of long races, shorter races and double headers. I discussed with Morning Gents yesterday the possibility of getting a longer race or a double header at Cadwell next season to entice more saloons out, its in the middle of bloody nowhere and needs more support, to get it it needs to offer a worthwhile reason to go, a longer race doesn't necessarily appeal to all the HRSR cars, so if that doesn't materialise a double header should, an hours track time over the weekend makes it worth serious consideration even if you live in the tropical south!
[/quote]

The problem is that the HSCC has to satisfy 7 or 8 different groups within their ranks all of whom want more track time. Perhaps the answer is more 2 day meetings with all groups getting longer races, or double headers, ensuring that all groups race only on one of the days so that the entire weekend is not taken up with too much spare time. Cadwell is a good example as even for us 'up north' it still takes more than 2 hours to get there towing a race car and 2 races or one long race would make the effort more worthwhile. And even though race entry fees would be higher I'm sure they wouldn't be double. Again, it's an issue to put to the HSCC.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by brands

and most importantly the poor entry. No wonder the HSCC didn't have the nerve to publish it on their website.

On what criteria is your 'poor entry' judgment based? Let's look at the numbers. The only data I have are the entry list in the programme. The lowest entry was the Classic Formula Two, with 17;not a full grid by any means, but a respectable number considering the type of car involved. Of the 16 races, the programme lists reserves for five of them - can't really call that a poor entry, can you?

By most people's standards the meeting had very good grids - believe me, from where I stood on Sunday (in the observer's box at Old Hall) the number of cars all fighting for the same bit of track at the start of some of the races was impressive...not to mention scary at times!

OK, some aspects of the meeting could have been better, but let's not knock what was a very successful, highly entertaining meeting; there wasn't one bad race.

[one-two]

It gets a thumbs up from me too. I thought the track was in a good state - has it been resurfaced recently? Lap times were generally on the low side of expectations. It was a good programme in my view and seemed well attended on- and off-track. In contrast to one or two others, I thought there might have been more spectators than in the past? Someone somewhere will presumably have the gate numbers. Only minus was that the paddock seemed a bit more muddled than usual. Lastly, on a personal note, I had a problem in practice and switched from one car to another. It couldn't have been dealt with more efficiently - and fairly to all, I hope - by race control and the scrutineers. Many thanks to those involved. Robert

[brands]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

On what criteria is your 'poor entry' judgment based? Let's look at the numbers. The only data I have are the entry list in the programme. The lowest entry was the Classic Formula Two, with 17;not a full grid by any means, but a respectable number considering the type of car involved. Of the 16 races, the programme lists reserves for five of them - can't really call that a poor entry, can you?

By most people's standards the meeting had very good grids - believe me, from where I stood on Sunday (in the observer's box at Old Hall) the number of cars all fighting for the same bit of track at the start of some of the races was impressive...not to mention scary at times!

OK, some aspects of the meeting could have been better, but let's not knock what was a very successful, highly entertaining meeting; there wasn't one bad race.

My criteria would be a normal HSCC club meeting at Silverstone, Donington or Combe.

My bet is that the finals event at Silverstone in October will have a better entry than appeared at Oulton Park.

Why no guest series ? where were all the big saloons ? Why did we have 6 out of 8 races on Sunday with single seaters ? Mondays card was a better balance of single seater then tin top throughout the day.

I agree there was some good races but would you travel 400 miles, have the cost of that travel, pay MSV £41 for one and a half days entertainment ? I can do better at the Combe Classic carnival two day meeting at a quarter of the cost.

Of the six of us who intended going three were put off by MSV and their attitude and the three that did go have decided that our annual trip to the "Gold Cup" meeting will be our last.

[scoop]

Brands:

I was the person who organised the rally stage demo - with just three weeks notice - that was one of the many things that has clearly spoilt your weekend. I think your decision not to go to the Gold Cup again is an excellent one.

[Peter Mallett]

Reading through this thread there does seem to be a general view that it wasn't a "Gold Cup" meeting in comparison with previous years. I wonder if there are too many "festivals"?

[zefarelly]

well said scoop, My 3 year old son thought it was excellent fun, and you got a good mix of cars there in three weeks.

Of course the Finals will attract a large grid, people are vying for class and championship wins!

MSV have improved all their circuits in recent years, although it does take more than a few signs and matching paintwork.

[Hepatic]

Not only that, but how many of the competitors are based much closer to those tracks than Oulton? Some clubs struggle at Oulton simply because a lot of the drivers are based much closer to other circuits and not all can afford to race here, just as marshals and spectators can't afford to go to every track.

The grids were some of the fullest i've seen all year. I did think that more Lolas would have been in the parade (cough CART cough) but certainly wouldn't have slated it. Camping was "difficult" but mainly due to no decent ground to put everyone one other than the strip down the back straight, everything else had to be used to car parking. Drunken idiots are always a problem at big events, you'll see just the same at Silverstone but 10 fold.

As for only 1.5 days entertainment, how much do you pay to see a football team play? and for how long? £41 sounds a bargain if you ask me!!

Due to curfews and maximum allowed "race days" that are inflicted on ALL circuits around the UK, Saturday had to be a no spectator day so as not to be counted in their allotment. Sunday has a curfew imposed of no racing before 12 noon, so i'm sorry if you feel short changed but MSV can't do much about it, feel free to lobby the local council tho

I enjoyed it, even if a burning Chevron caused us some work in the pitlane on Sunday!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by brands

I agree there was some good races but would you travel 400 miles, have the cost of that travel, pay MSV £41 for one and a half days entertainment ? I can do better at the Combe Classic carnival two day meeting at a quarter of the cost.

Of the six of us who intended going three were put off by MSV and their attitude and the three that did go have decided that our annual trip to the "Gold Cup" meeting will be our last.

It's not MSV's fault that racing can't start before 12:00 on Sundays. Despite that, you did actually see two full days' worth of racing as all the qualifying sessions for Sunday were run on Saturday - maybe you should be thanking all the drivers, marshals, etc., who gave up a whole bank holiday weekend to make that happen?

Reading through this thread it does seem that all the drivers thoroughly enjoyed the meeting (although I suspect those unfortunate enough to have suffered expensive engine blow-ups, crashes, etc., may not have enjoyed it quite so much!); I know that I & all my fellow marshals enjoyed it & I'm sure that a high proportion of the thousands of speccies also enjoyed it. Just goes to show, you can't please everybody.

[brands]

Originally Posted by scoop

Brands:

I was the person who organised the rally stage demo - with just three weeks notice - that was one of the many things that has clearly spoilt your weekend. I think your decision not to go to the Gold Cup again is an excellent one.

The rally stage was a bonus event as at the time of booking my tickets nothing had been announced, so it wasn't part of the decision this year or next.

As someone who watches several historic rallies a year I was disappointed at the turn out, 10 cars were running when we popped over on Monday afternoon (14.30-15.40).

It must be difficult trying to round up cars and drivers in three weeks especially mid season, I wish you well next year when hopefully you will have plenty of notice.

As for me, I suppose I will have to make do with only the Robin Hood, Severn valley and Harry Flatters next year....

[brands]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

As for only 1.5 days entertainment, how much do you pay to see a football team play? and for how long? £41 sounds a bargain if you ask me!!

My Silverstone Classic three day ticket cost me £40 !!


I'm glad some/most enjoyed the event and I wish you all a pleasant time next year

[brands]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

It's not MSV's fault that racing can't start before 12:00 on Sundays. Despite that, you did actually see two full days' worth of racing as all the qualifying sessions for Sunday were run on Saturday - maybe you should be thanking all the drivers, marshals, etc., who gave up a whole bank holiday weekend to make that happen?

Sorry, last post honest

Part of the issue is that in previous years we have pitched up on Friday afternoon/evening and watched 2 and a half days of track action, Saturday, Sunday and Monday but a friend rang the circuit to confirm it was so this year and as informed no spectator would be allowed in until Sunday unless they were camping and then not until 18.00 on Saturday.

We duly turned up at 17.30 on Saturday and it was heaving with people, it was quite a search to find half decent camping pitch.
Some were marshals etc but most appeared not.

I don't understand why you felt the need to add the last comment

[scoop]

Brands:

Just trying to get a handle on your view of the rally stage, as we will soon want to discuss what happens in 2009 (if anything):

You started off with "the awful and un-organised rally stage" and are now saying "disappointed at the turn out". Which was it?

Yes, it was difficult getting 16 cars on a Bank Holiday Monday with three weeks notice - maybe we shouldn't have bothered, although I am genuinely pleased that Zefarelly junior enjoyed it - shame he's 11 years too young for a ride, as that could be arranged!

Running more than 20 cars would be difficult as too much queuing with hot engines is not good and we don't want BDGs going pop because there is no chance to cool them down properly.

I'd be interested to know who 'Brands' really is, as he clearly has an interest in historic rallying - although if you want to see the BHRC in action, don't go to the 2009 Robin Hood as it is not a round of the championship.