Monaco - Obsolete: discuss - Page 2

stripedcat · 29 May 2011, 19:35 (Ref:2887707)

Monaco will always be there. It is a lot safer than it used to be. Plus the marshals there are amazing. They can clear cars super quick and with no service roads.

It is still an amazing track to drive around. Great for fans as well, as they can get really close. Overtaking has always been difficult, nigh on impossible there, but I still love the track despite of it. I could say that about the many other tracks where overtaking is difficult(Hungry or Abu Dhabi for instance).

Hubble · 29 May 2011, 19:47 (Ref:2887722)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

do we have to wait until a top driver is killed before the monaco GP is allowed to pass into history, after this weekend I think that will be soon

There have been far worse shunts at other circuits - why single Monaco out? By their nature street circuits will always carry a higher element of risk, due to the proximity of the barriers etc, but Monaco is one of very few circuits that reward bravery and precision and punish mistakes. I would far rather have that than one with acres of run off the drivers can go wide on....

My favourite circuit is Pau....and the F3 GP weekend is always a crash fest (I'll add that that's not the reason I love it there)

kezza7 · 29 May 2011, 19:54 (Ref:2887725)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

On the Speed gridwalk Will Buxton asked Mika Hakkinen about the race and I thought he was never going to shut up. Anything that can get Mika Hakkinen to ramble must be quite something indeed. It's not going anywhere, nor should it.

This is exactly it. The drivers adore Monaco. It is by far the greatest challenge a driver will ever face. In fact, even if a driver was killed, yes changes would be made to the circuit (as much as can be made in the tiny area), but i feel that every driver would still want to race there. The risk they could get killed is why the drivers want to race there, it's the only track in which you can only win if you have two things: Immense Talent and Balls. Enormous testicles. If you ever go to Monaco, you'll see why. Why would you EVER want to go through the tunnel at 150mph or through the swimming pool at 100. You'd have to be insane. And THAT is why the drivers love it. They crash at Spa, they have acres of run off pretty much everywhere. Even at Valencia and Singapore there is plenty of runoff, so the drivers aren't tested on bravery. Monaco, you have a bit of oversteer, you're in the wall and out. The bravest wins.

This is part of F1 history and folklore. This is where the men are separated from the boys. This is why Formula 1 will never ever leave the Principality.

GT6 · 29 May 2011, 19:58 (Ref:2887729)

The way all motorsport is going safety issues will mean changes but monaco can not be changed, they can't build run off area's they can't widen the track and they can't change the way the world is going, if there is a fatal crash and if spectators are involved then F1 will end up under a smoothering of law suits because there have been so many warnings. I love the monaco GP in some ways but one big crash and that would kill motorsport and not just F1

Hubble · 29 May 2011, 20:03 (Ref:2887732)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezza7

This is exactly it. The drivers adore Monaco. It is by far the greatest challenge a driver will ever face. In fact, even if a driver was killed, yes changes would be made to the circuit (as much as can be made in the tiny area), but i feel that every driver would still want to race there. The risk they could get killed is why the drivers want to race there, it's the only track in which you can only win if you have two things: Immense Talent and Balls. Enormous testicles. If you ever go to Monaco, you'll see why. Why would you EVER want to go through the tunnel at 150mph or through the swimming pool at 100. You'd have to be insane. And THAT is why the drivers love it. They crash at Spa, they have acres of run off pretty much everywhere. Even at Valencia and Singapore there is plenty of runoff, so the drivers aren't tested on bravery. Monaco, you have a bit of oversteer, you're in the wall and out. The bravest wins.

This is part of F1 history and folklore. This is where the men are separated from the boys. This is why Formula 1 will never ever leave the Principality.

'nuff said....

Piglet · 29 May 2011, 20:09 (Ref:2887741)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

The way all motorsport is going safety issues will mean changes but monaco can not be changed, they can't build run off area's they can't widen the track and they can't change the way the world is going, if there is a fatal crash and if spectators are involved then F1 will end up under a smoothering of law suits because there have been so many warnings. I love the monaco GP in some ways but one big crash and that would kill motorsport and not just F1

What warnings about incidents involving spectators? I'm not sure I recall anything that has headed for spectators?

Personally, I thought the barrier that Perez hit performed very well.

Purist · 29 May 2011, 20:12 (Ref:2887742)

And you don't think the motorsport lovers would push back just as violently, or moreso, than those who file the lawsuits?

Back to reality though, unless a track is brand new, it is going to have bumps. These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world; they can deal with it. If the cars are unsuitable, FIX THE DAMN CARS! Also, as for the chicane, leave an escape road, but go back to the pre-1986 chicane, so you have a MUCH reduced chance of pile-ups there caused by one guy going full-bore into someone at a crawl trying to make those first two apexes.

Spritle · 29 May 2011, 20:49 (Ref:2887764)

I agree, it is absolutely totally obsolete...

...and I love every obsolete millimeter of it! It is about the only thing that F1 has that links it to its past glory!

If the driver's think it is too dangerous, they can sit it out whilst the braver amongst them, along with former drivers and ghosts from the days of almost NO safety, snicker.

K1 CERB · 29 May 2011, 21:30 (Ref:2887793)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubble

There have been far worse shunts at other circuits - why single Monaco out? By their nature street circuits will always carry a higher element of risk, due to the proximity of the barriers etc, but Monaco is one of very few circuits that reward bravery and precision and punish mistakes. I would far rather have that than one with acres of run off the drivers can go wide on....

And there be the Rub. I guess for the drivers, it is their Everest. Having been lucky enough to have visited Monaco on a Non-race day & also for a race, I have been able to watch some of the most able drivers execute their skill. The hill up to Casino Square is a 25mph road, the tunnel has municipal car parks in it. Watching Hamilton today (who I'm not a fan of) chasing Schumaker & Massa lap after lap, their skill is immense and for that reason Monaco should stay so us mere mortals can admire these guys with abilities beyond our highest expectations.

thebear · 29 May 2011, 22:58 (Ref:2887850)

Quote:

Originally Posted by McArthur252

As much as it saddens me, as it should any F1 fan, I couldnt help but feel Monaco has become an obsolete circuit in need of several changes in order to maintain its place in F1 (as it rightfully should).
As a spectical it is un-matched, as a race track i think it lacks quite alot.

Perhaps the engineering of the cars has surpassed the capapbility of the track?

.

Marbot · 29 May 2011, 23:06 (Ref:2887854)

It's not the most dangerous race in the world by a long way. But it is one of the most watched races. So the FIA will be having a long look at Monaco to make sure that anything that can be done to make it safer, gets done.

Steve Milward · 29 May 2011, 23:08 (Ref:2887856)

Monaco is the Grand Prix that every F1 driver wants to win. You may ask why and the answer is simple.

It shows as a driver you have the ultimate in car control, it shows you have lightening fast reactions and lastly it shows you have what it takes to come within a millimetre of the barriers to win.

Simply one of the best races on the calendar and for those reasons it has to stay.

wnut · 29 May 2011, 23:11 (Ref:2887860)

There shouldn't be an "island" to crash into when things go wrong, the barrier should sweep out to the obstacle and allow the car to slow down over a long distance. The abrupt halt is what does the damage.
Keep the bumps and change the configuration to make sure that noone can hit the end of something and stop dead. The crash pad performed a good job though! That accident would have been fatal a few short years ago. Thankfully someone got the kerbs removed promptly after Rosberg's accident as well.

stripedcat · 30 May 2011, 01:10 (Ref:2887886)

Does anyone else want to see the Ste. Dovote corner changed back. That I think, does not help Monaco's limited overtaking. Plus I thought it was better that way.

Marbot · 30 May 2011, 08:23 (Ref:2888007)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

That accident would have been fatal a few short years ago.

Thankfully not!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZw7ind6N-4

Karl Wendlinger wasn't quite so lucky over a decade earlier. He suffered serious head injuries, and was in a coma for weeks. He drove in F1 shortly after that, but his performances were disappointing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUxMLIbtIk

**Adam43** · 30 May 2011, 08:23 (Ref:2888009)

OK, the article has the words "Slam" in the title which tends to wind me up. It also has the words "Jacques" and "Villeneuve" too. However some of the comments above reminded me of this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/m...n-1258450.html

Marbot · 30 May 2011, 08:32 (Ref:2888012)

I'd forgotten just how outspoken JV used to be!

Motor racing is dangerous. It's possible to have a huge accident on any corner or straight at any race circuit in the world, if circumstances come together to make that happen.

Teretonga · 30 May 2011, 09:15 (Ref:2888033)

Obsolete?
In a sense yes, but it has been that way since Bandini's accident in 1967....
It was in 1994 after Wendlingers accident....
It always has been perhaps since a car first ended up in the harbour....

Any circuit is dangerous. Every circuit IS dangerous. Some more so than others. Every circuit has its challenges and Monaco has a unique set of challenges.

It has its place on the calendar.
Just because one race had a red flag and a couple of major accidents over the weekend doesn't mean its past its use by date.

nobster · 30 May 2011, 09:27 (Ref:2888041)

can anyone here explain why one of the mods closes a thread about Hamilton and Monaco because of "no need for Hamilton bashing" and on other threads the likes of TGF and Teflonso can be bashed all the time? What Hamilton did and said is totally out of order and there should be a possibity to adress that on this forum! It is a world wide forum after all!

Marbot · 30 May 2011, 09:31 (Ref:2888046)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobster

can anyone here explain why one of the mods closes a thread about Hamilton and Monaco because of "no need for Hamilton bashing" and on other threads the likes of TGF and Teflonso can be bashed all the time? What Hamilton did and said is totally out of order and there should be a possibity to adress that on this forum! It is a world wide forum after all!

It's being discussed to some degree in the Monaco GP thread.

**Adam43** · 30 May 2011, 10:13 (Ref:2888066)

nobster, that subject is being discussed here on the F1 forum. I seem to remember adding my thoughts about Louise being silly. No point in having the same discussion twice, especially when the opening post was so poor.
In addition it is very off topic for this thread. Please go to this link if you wish to discuss it:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...128471&page=18

Back to Monaco being great.

nobster · 30 May 2011, 10:53 (Ref:2888096)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

nobster, that subject is being discussed here on the F1 forum. I seem to remember adding my thoughts about Louise being silly. No point in having the same discussion twice, especially when the opening post was so poor.
In addition it is very off topic for this thread. Please go to this link if you wish to discuss it:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...128471&page=18

Back to Monaco being great.

The race was great, until the red flag that is, that took away a possible great ending with the top three on tyres with a different distance covered. Now we never know if Jenson could have made it further up, after all overtaking was possible for some drivers...

**Bononi** · 30 May 2011, 11:09 (Ref:2888109)

Monaco will stay forever, I can't see F1 without it. Just watching it this weekend and seeing that old logo somewhere (can't remember quite where) it was a great feeling.
Long live Monaco.

**garcon** · 30 May 2011, 11:09 (Ref:2888110)

I do love Monaco, for the occasion to the frequent drama ... but I fear we had a narrow escape this weekend and I'd rather we called it a day the year before a death than the year after.

edited to add:

That's not to say we should can it now. Just that we shouldn't let misty-eyed nostalgia get in the way of what may become a necessary decision.

**Bononi** · 30 May 2011, 11:33 (Ref:2888129)

Hopefully it will never happen again.

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