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Old 8 Aug 2001, 17:57 (Ref:127702)   #1
AndyF
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AndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
CSCC Drivers - What's going on!!!

The CSCC has become recognised as one of the best supported series in UK Club racing. However, at Lydden Hill last week the finishers in the 5 CSCC races were 13, 8, 10, 6, 9. This seemed very surprising, especially in the week that the Motorsport Organisers announced they will axe championships that do not reach an average on 15 cars per season. Another interesting fact: of the 153 drivers that have raced in the Classic, Post Historics, Gp 1 and Classic Thunder, 47 had only scored points in one race - that's 30%!!!!!!!!!!

Your views please............

Last edited by AndyF; 8 Aug 2001 at 17:58.
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Old 9 Aug 2001, 11:16 (Ref:127992)   #2
josvandeperre
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I only have excuses not suggestions - precommitments mean that I'm missing three and a half months of races but will be back for Oulton - another glitch is that after writing off my G1 Golf the Scirocco ended up as pre 90 so that limited my options to do two races per event so I'll not do Donington for example - but if there's another race added for that weekend I'll drag my hangover from saturday nights's precommitment (what it is to be popular !)

Also I wonder if the ease of entry (simple cheap racing - relatively) means that people do the series when it suits the rest of their lives and not as an absolute committment (as might be the case if they had more invested in the equipnent)
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Old 9 Aug 2001, 12:01 (Ref:128012)   #3
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Stacy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridStacy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Re: CSCC Drivers - What's going on!!!

The problems are manyfold. I think the main reasons are:

1. Antipathy - for some reason a number of people just do have other commitments. Additionally the recent circuits such as Anglesey and Lydden do not attract big entries anyway due to the fact they are at opposite ends of the country.

2. MSA. Like it or not I've considered that the MSA have given out too many saloon racing permits to sports car clubs, such as Top Hat, which have a negative affect on our grids. The CSCC do not request sports car permits and there is an irony in that the MSA will now beat us if the numbers remain low. This is something the CSCC will be directly taking issue with the MSA on. The CSCC is the oldest and most successful club at classic saloon racing, and we should be getting a commensurate level of support from the MSA.

3. Spreading ourselves too thin - I have also considered that Pre-90's so early may be a mistake. We started the series because rumours abounded that another club was due to pile in, effectively limiting the clubs lifespan for the long term view. However, a number of pre-66 competitors are building pre-90 cars.. One suggestion might be to amalgamate pre-90's with another BARC series, for safekeeping until pre-90's is considered classic racing again and we can again take control. That enables us to stick to what we're good at. It's unpalatable, but all things must be looked at to safeguard the long term security of the club. Pre-90's will be a success I am sure, but I think it may need to be managed so it'll work for everyone.

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Old 9 Aug 2001, 15:16 (Ref:128084)   #4
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While it is a possible cause for concern that the some of the CSCC races are not full subscribed, I think that there are other championships that are in a worse state. This does not mean that the CSCC should not look at ways of improving grids, or the reasons for the drop in numbers.
One of the problems with historic type saloons is that the MSA have allowed a number of series to be started, which are in competition for the cars that are eligible for the CSCC Historic cars. Perhaps the best thing the MSA could do is get these series to form one championship under the control of one club, (I would say CSCC, but I may be biased). The HSCC has always been a sportscar club, & now runs a saloon championship, whereas the CSCC has always been a saloon club, perhaps a line should be drawn on the type of cars a club can run.
The Pre-90s are the next logical step for the club, but these series take a while to get the grids, (the Pre74s, which is a success now, started relatively slowly). Time is just needed for it to become the major success that the Pre83 & Pre74s are now.
As for other series, the SuperCoupes is a good way of giving ex-one makes cars a place to race. But, the MSA should not allow these championship to start unless they can prove that they will be a success.
I don't think we should look at the CSCC as a club in decline. The Committee & the club will ensure the continuance of the series under their control & the club will still be around for a long time yet!
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Old 13 Aug 2001, 20:33 (Ref:129880)   #5
Stephen Green
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Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!
I have read the above with interest. May I suggest that if you are to start new series, that you attempt to get the relevant numbers of cars to satisfy the MSA. But for existing races you stick with what you have.

I have marshalled at a few CSCC meetings and find them great race days in general and would hate to see guys like yourselves who spend a vast amount of time and money preparing cars, being allowed to carry on unabated.

Whilst I am a proponent of larger grids, it doesn't always make for closer and better racing. Also, with classic cars you have to remember the restricted number of cars that are available to race in the first place!

Keep up the great work, I look forward to seeing you all at Brands again soon!
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Old 15 Aug 2001, 16:04 (Ref:130815)   #6
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Hi AndyF - sadly I was one of the cars that didnt manage to finish the CT race when only 6 crossed the line and I too was wondering why Lydden was so poorly supported , I asked an official at the meeting who said that it was really too soon after Spa which is the season highlight for many competitors , which drained the grid due to a) alot of cars were involved in accidents over there and b) Spa is an expensive outing.
Hi Stacy , I agree it does seem that people in the older series are updating. Would it be a possibility that perhaps pre-90 could be incorporated into CT for the timebeing until interest is such that it could stand alone , that way we could boost the CT grids which I think only average 14 or 15 and keep the pre-90 series boys interested by giving them a race every meeting......
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Old 15 Aug 2001, 18:50 (Ref:130889)   #7
AndyF
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AndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
As an outsider, the idea of mixing the pre-90s and the Classic Thunder would be a good idea, at least until support picks up. Also with the series for pre-66, it seems that it could eventually be merged into Post Historics??
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Old 16 Aug 2001, 08:06 (Ref:131144)   #8
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I hear where you are coming from but personally I like to do two races and right now I'm elligible for CT & pre90 so I'd hate to see them merged
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Old 16 Aug 2001, 11:24 (Ref:131209)   #9
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AndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAndyF should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Although I think that you can race in both classes in certain cars will become advantageous as the series develops, problems in the first race will effect the chances of appearing in the second event. Perhaps for a short period they should be merged.
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Old 17 Aug 2001, 08:38 (Ref:131565)   #10
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Re: Re: CSCC Drivers - What's going on!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by stacy
3. Spreading ourselves too thin - I have also considered that Pre-90's so early may be a mistake. We started the series because rumours abounded that another club was due to pile in, effectively limiting the clubs lifespan for the long term view. However, a number of pre-66 competitors are building pre-90 cars.. One suggestion might be to amalgamate pre-90's with another BARC series, for safekeeping until pre-90's is considered classic racing again and we can again take control. That enables us to stick to what we're good at. It's unpalatable, but all things must be looked at to safeguard the long term security of the club. Pre-90's will be a success I am sure, but I think it may need to be managed so it'll work for everyone.

Stacy [/B]
Having been one of the main intigators of starting the CSCC Pre-90 series I naturally would take issue with Stacy's 3rd point (while agreeing with the first 2).
The presence of Pre-90 has not made any difference to the grid numbers in the established championships.
In the Group-1 series I have competed in I would also enter the Prer-90 if I managed to get to a race in the first place.
My excuses for not being out there this year, include blowing my budget 4 fold last year, destroying the race engine at Spa, buying a house increasing the mortgage 10X (ouch!), the pressures of business which is quite difficult this year, and Gordon Brown's IR35...but that will lead to another rant!

Before Pre-90 becomes a championship it will give Grp-1 a 2nd race and gradually encourage other drivers to join our club, which after all is what we need.
There 'market' for these over 20 yr old cars is there it just needs to be developed.

IanC
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Old 17 Aug 2001, 14:09 (Ref:131709)   #11
AndyF
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A very valid point. However, I feel that the CSCC is one of the top Club series, but to attract further drivers there are two possibilites. The dissolution of some serie may offer extra drivers to race in the series. Further promotion of the club, that would turn it into a top level National series, which I am sure is not what you want.
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Old 28 Aug 2001, 21:37 (Ref:137274)   #12
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Stacy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridStacy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Re: Re: Re: CSCC Drivers - What's going on!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by yelwoci

Having been one of the main intigators of starting the CSCC Pre-90 series I naturally would take issue with Stacy's 3rd point (while agreeing with the first 2).
The presence of Pre-90 has not made any difference to the grid numbers in the established championships.
Hi Ian,

I've really got nothing against Pre-90's believe me, but your point isn't true I'm afraid. A number of Pre-66 drivers have shown interest in Pre-90's and indeed at least one has now been completed and will be at Pembrey.

As for the rest, I wouldn't agree with merging Pre-90's and Classic Thunder - the whole premise of Pre-90's is Group 'N' and I don't think it would sit well in CT.

Both will be a success I am sure, we just need to apply ourselves a little more and there's plenty of things going on now which suggest this is happening sooner rather than later.

Cheers

Stacy.
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Old 29 Aug 2001, 10:36 (Ref:137610)   #13
AndyF
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If the pre-90s become a success, what then for the Classic Saloon and Historic Touring Car Championship, if it is losing the drivers, does it have a future????
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Old 29 Aug 2001, 11:33 (Ref:137644)   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndyF
If the pre-90s become a success, what then for the Classic Saloon and Historic Touring Car Championship, if it is losing the drivers, does it have a future????
Definately, the Pre-66 is effectively the donor championship for a number of spawned series. The issue is in getting those cars back, currently all pre-66 type series are struggling, it would seem to make sense for moves to amalgamate.

For example one series was started a few years ago with a mildly tweeked set of our regs. That for one could and should be brought back into the fold.
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Old 30 Aug 2001, 10:42 (Ref:138357)   #15
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what are the entries like for this weekend ?
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