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Old 29 Jun 2012, 20:06 (Ref:3099978)   #76
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HJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
More on aero kits.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...nue-to-evolve/
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Old 29 Jun 2012, 21:59 (Ref:3100021)   #77
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The problem is that the organizers are too scared of saying big NO to these whiners... for example, we can blame FIA and ACO all we want for implementing new costly regulations and updates all the time but they don't stop every time someone starts to complain about the changes. If ICS just stood up and forced the issue we could actually move on.

By this rate the aero kits will be introduced by late 2018, just in time to become horribly outdated before the next iteration of spec-Dallara hits the track.
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Old 30 Jun 2012, 09:57 (Ref:3100136)   #78
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Costs are out of hand - Owners.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...tion-strategy/
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Old 30 Jun 2012, 12:58 (Ref:3100183)   #79
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If that article isn't an endorsement of the old CART formula of multichasis & low-tech I don't know what is. Here we have Dallara getting cocky and inefficient and charging through the nose for the priviledge.
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Old 30 Jun 2012, 22:26 (Ref:3100309)   #80
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If that article isn't an endorsement of the old CART formula of multichasis & low-tech I don't know what is. Here we have Dallara getting cocky and inefficient and charging through the nose for the priviledge.
While the costs with the multiple chassis did get high in the height of CART, that was more due to regulations. You can regulate the builders to keep costs down (i.e. not introducing a new model every year like CART), and the fight of the multiple builders is the heart of what happens in the real world, and that is keeping the costs down. You feel you are overcharged for new parts, you say, "F- you", and move to the competitor.

Too bad the people running the show are seemingly not willing enough to take that risk.
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Old 1 Jul 2012, 06:55 (Ref:3100349)   #81
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Here again "I told ya so".

Can't remember how many people said my free market economics were BS and that the cost savings were going to be there for this single make car where production is held and controlled by the speedway and dallara(who are in cahoots with one another), but it was quite a few people here. And those posters were dead wrong.

They said freedom in competition would never work, it was too expensive, too costly and well it was quite the opposite. Now it's boo hoo hoo, but they'll just have to take their medicine and enjoy their totalitarian product forced down their throats, a very mediocre and half baked product at best(by dallara's admission too). The car is a piece of junk. How bad is it in this modern era with amazing design technology and knowledge that you'd have to stick a 30 pound nose plug of lead in the nose of an open wheel formula car to keep the car somewhat stable?

Also in CART, not every team bought new cars every year, the ones not used up were passed down to smaller teams so they could run a year old car on a smaller budget and also to expand the field back when the Indy 500 existed as a real race with competition and pole day and bump day that actually attracted a crowd.
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Old 1 Jul 2012, 07:15 (Ref:3100354)   #82
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If that article isn't an endorsement of the old CART formula of multichasis & low-tech I don't know what is. Here we have Dallara getting cocky and inefficient and charging through the nose for the priviledge.
Them and the speedway are in cahoots. Unless something has changed, every single part sold by dallara has an "indycar tax" on it, where 15% goes to the irl on every sale. That was revealed publicly a few times.

That's why everyone was almost 100% positive dallara would win back in 2010 and that the whole "committee" and vote was a complete and utter fraud of epic proportions.

So whatever cuts into dallara's margins also cuts into the speedways cut and we can't have that.

It's why ganassi and penske are not as smart as they think they are. Yes they did pillage CART and make out on the short term, such as dumping CART stock, but now everyone is in the gulag where teams have no say at all. They can complain but have no control. The team owners from CART were idiots. They exchange a stake in ownership or as a franchise holder in CART for absolutely nothing in the irl.

You look at how successful V8 Supercars or F1 is and it's because the teams have a stake in the success of the business and they have a say. Not a total say, but some say and a share in the profits.
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Old 1 Jul 2012, 12:07 (Ref:3100444)   #83
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Them and the speedway are in cahoots. Unless something has changed, every single part sold by dallara has an "indycar tax" on it, where 15% goes to the irl on every sale. That was revealed publicly a few times.
I assume you would have a link to these public revelations??
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Old 2 Jul 2012, 22:20 (Ref:3101097)   #84
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I agree 110% percent with Moutainstar, as I have most of my time on this forum. I don't post often, because after a while I get depressed about how great the racing use to be during the C.A.R.T era.

Perhaps these morons should read this book, but I'm guessing reading is not in their list of hobbies.

http://mises.org/document/2031

I'm reading it right now, and it's opened my eyes to the wisdom of Austrian Economics. If they continue to do business the way they are now, this series is doomed.

Thankfully when this series dies something new and much more modern will take its place and I for one am very excited that it will be in my life time.
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Old 2 Jul 2012, 22:31 (Ref:3101102)   #85
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I agree 110% percent with Moutainstar, as I have most of my time on this forum. I don't post often, because after a while I get depressed about how great the racing use to be during the C.A.R.T era.

Perhaps these morons should read this book, but I'm guessing reading is not in their list of hobbies.

http://mises.org/document/2031

I'm reading it right now, and it's opened my eyes to the wisdom of Austrian Economics. If they continue to do business the way they are now, this series is doomed.

Thankfully when this series dies something new and much more modern will take its place and I for one am very excited that it will be in my life time.
Personally, I think this book is more suited for the current Indycar management and others involved with the series.

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Old 2 Jul 2012, 22:38 (Ref:3101106)   #86
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Paradise City is going for a new lap record!Paradise City is going for a new lap record!Paradise City is going for a new lap record!Paradise City is going for a new lap record!Paradise City is going for a new lap record!Paradise City is going for a new lap record!
CART = socialism. Strong* revolutionary committee keeping costs down and tech low - Socialist but not communist, traders still trade business is done but state keeps things regulated. See europe 1970-2000 for further study [ Europe today is going soviet, imo]

IRL single make championship. soviet union, north korea. Pie-in-the-sky society ran by a deluded dictator with an iron fist. badly run tryanny.

Formula Schumacher = Free trade. The conglomerates move in and price everyone into oblivion. E.g Ikea Furniture Megastore kills off the small trader.



*well, kinda strong
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Old 3 Jul 2012, 00:19 (Ref:3101134)   #87
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CART = socialism. Strong* revolutionary committee keeping costs down and tech low - Socialist but not communist, traders still trade business is done but state keeps things regulated. See europe 1970-2000 for further study [ Europe today is going soviet, imo]

IRL single make championship. soviet union, north korea. Pie-in-the-sky society ran by a deluded dictator with an iron fist. badly run tryanny.

Formula Schumacher = Free trade. The conglomerates move in and price everyone into oblivion. E.g Ikea Furniture Megastore kills off the small trader.

*well, kinda strong
CART wasn't socialism at all, it was pure capitalism. There were no price controls or other meddling and CART didn't control production or have any other restrictions. Whoever met the rules could play.
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Old 3 Jul 2012, 00:41 (Ref:3101137)   #88
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CART wasn't socialism at all, it was pure capitalism. There were no price controls or other meddling and CART didn't control production or have any other restrictions. Whoever met the rules could play.
The CART philosophy was massive state intervention [the rules] enforcing a low-cost, low-tech environment. F1 is unbridled capitalism before Mosley put his foot down. I'm being somewhat humorous but my point is correct.
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Old 3 Jul 2012, 07:36 (Ref:3101175)   #89
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It has been interesting to read this last page.

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You look at how successful V8 Supercars or F1 is and it's because the teams have a stake in the success of the business and they have a say. Not a total say, but some say and a share in the profits.
Yeah, but V8 Supercars is like an plain, even ugly, looking woman who has a decent make-up artist and surrounded by good lighting.

I would've thought any success F1 has is more due to the fact it's the highest level of motorsport around, or that the FIA offers (regardless of what any other catergory may think). The highest level of motorsport will always be popular regardless of what dumb decisions FIA/Bernie have done. The popularity of the highest level of motorsport will also enhance whatever appropriate/correct decision they make.
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Old 3 Jul 2012, 09:30 (Ref:3101207)   #90
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The CART philosophy was massive state intervention [the rules] enforcing a low-cost, low-tech environment. F1 is unbridled capitalism before Mosley put his foot down. I'm being somewhat humorous but my point is correct.
On second thoughts, its probably more social democracy than socialism. Heavy state regulation but no direct price controls..etc
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