Alternative series planned

[M.Lowe]

I was reading in Motorsport News today that Peter Stott and John Rook had put out proposals for another Rallycross championship.

I think that the current championship is good but by adding another I couldnt see it working.

What about the clubmen Mr Stott and Mr Rook like Andy Grant and Steve Mundy they have decent cars and help back the series as it is now, what happens if the big boys all leave then you are going to have a **** championship.

Can you see Brands under Jonathan Palmer paying for a rallycross meeting? erm no.

Dave Binks quotes in MN " I dont understand why they are knocking what is already here, my attitude would be to put any ideas forward. Two heads are better than one"

Unless the drivers want that type of championship would it not be best to leave well alone?

Would Mr Stott and Mr Rook like to comment on here or say nothing like in MN?

[Cryos]

Personaly M.Lowe i think it is quiet a good idea,

Upto now there has been no alternative to the BRC so an alternative championship would be welcomed in my view. I was talking to peter about this ages ago and he replyed that he had some good feedback from one of the sports most highly regarded men.

If i remember last year correctly (which i do) an number of drivers and compeditors where furious at the level of operations in last years championship, indeed i know irish drivers were furious in the last brc round in mondello because it was very biased to British Drivers which is fair enough, but when irish drivers get upto the same antics as some british drivers did they got a fair slap and put back in place.

Speaking with an number of irish drivers most agreed that an alternative british championship was an very good idea.

I would like to say good luck to Peter and John Rook for endevoring on an truly welcomed venture from Media Reporting to Event Organisation.

[M.Lowe]

Thats fair enough as all oppinions are interesting to read and thats what makes the forum work.

Thanks Rxie
What are other peoples views on it

[BertMk2]

I think more effort should be put into making the current championships work - whether this in there current format or in a format yet to be developed. The problem with rallycross at the moment is that it seems to suffer from a lack of clear direction and various factions all trying to pull the sport in different directions.

Mr Stott used to be a regular on here and was very vocal of his criticism of the BRDA's organisational skills - whilst it's good to see someone cares so passionately about the sport it would be more constructive if he were to try and work with the BRDA instead of against it.

My worry is that if another championship is set up you'll end up with a situation where there are a number of poorly supported championships each with their own incompatible regulations - this can't be good for the future of the sport as a whole in the uk, we need to hang on to all the drivers that currently compete and attract new drivers to the sport (and some out of retirement!).

In my opinion the only way to achieve this is to agree a set of regulations and stick to them (although provision will need to be made for current vehicles). To sum up - make what we've currently got work.

[Tracey]

IF the championship is well run, I can see it killing off the current championship, as everyone will switch to it. If it's not, I could see big trouble for Rallycross in terms of not enough cars to make either championship viable.

My ideal solution would be for the current organisers to get things a little more 'organised' and hopefully into a good championship, but maybe they need the input that these other guys could offer.

[imull]

I dont know much about Rally Cross but there doesnt really seem to be the numbers for a division into two separate entities

[chunder]

My thoughts exactly imull. Rallycross is hardly turning entries away every meeting and the last thing that is needed is some upstart rival series put together by a group of people who obviously have major differences with various people in the BRDA.
The way it was done was rather shammy aswell, handing out leaflets in a paddock rather than making a proper announcement. I very much doubt that the people involved wrote to MN.
I am all for change but every series struggles for numbers and setting up a rival series is never gonna happen unless you have something TRULY different to offer. The tracks aren't gonna be interested in running non sanctioned events, the drivers won't be interested unless they get something out of it financially or cheaper entries or they are dangled somehting they cannot get now, and really unless you have drivers and tracks what are you gona do, bring a Scalextric.
Bad taste is all I can say! Rallycross could be better sure but I think the BRDA has done a good job in bringing new people into the sport, whether they stay there has more to do with the cost of competing than the way it is run.

[RoyG]

Does anyone have a copy of these guys' proposals?

[EvilPumpkin]

This seems to happen in every racing class every few years. In general, the result is smaller grids/entries, poorer crowd turnout and eventually leads to one of two things - the groups get re-amalgamated under a new name, everything is fine for a couple of years and then it all goes pants again - or the sport dies.

You only have to look at what's happening in the UK with certain single seater classes at the moment to get the proof of this.

The strange thing about it is that it usually seems to be a small group of people who are convinced they can "run things better". Of course, when they do take over, they find out that they have exactly the same problems as the previous group. A case of "here comes the new boss, same as the old boss".

I'm with imull and chunder on this one - if people have a problem, surely it would make a lot more sense for them to put together a professional proposal of what they would like to see happen and how it could be implemented. In general, a professional approach will be met with equal professionalism. Standing around complaining but offering no solutions simply irritates people and serves no useful purpose.

I would have thought it would be a lot more constructive to do that, rather than going off and starting another class which will effectively dilute and weaken the sport they claim to be so concerned about.

[BertMk2]

Originally posted by RoyG
Does anyone have a copy of these guys' proposals?

I haven't seen then but judging from comments these guys have made in the past it would be a move to full compliance with the european regulations for class structure (which would mean the end of spaceframe supercars and the group B machines - both of which Mr Stott is heavily critical of). I'm not sure what the impact would be on the modified class (I don't know enough about the regulations) but I guess that a number of the current cars wouldn't comply.

The big worry has to be that we'll end up in a situation where none of the championships is viable and the sport collapses. I think it would be far more beneficial if Mr Stott and Mr Rook took their proposals to the BRDA and discussed ways of taking the current championship forward. The BRDA has made mistakes, I think they'll admit to that but I don't think the solution to any problems is to ditch what we currently have and start a new series from scratch. Working together for the good of the sport has to be the way forward, if the ideas put forward are good enough and viable they'll surely be adopted anyway?

For what it's worth from my point of view the current regs are ok in most classes - not sure that the new sub-modified class is a great idea but other than that they're ok. The supercars are moving towards the euro regs but still allow the 'budget' spaceframe cars and the fantastic group B machinery. Modified allows some serious engineering and provides a wide range of possibilities, this year the modified field looks wide open, the inclusion of some european drivers at the Nutts and Kirkistown rounds was good too, proving that european spec cars can run alongside the british machinery no problem. Stock Hatch provides the entry level class and some really good racing. Minicross is as mad as ever with plenty of action throughout the field and the Juniors are getting better now there's more of them out there (it wasn't great when there were only 3 of them).

It'll be interesting to find out exactly what the differences are with the proposed breakaway series.

[Roundy Mooney]

On the subject of Classes do you think that Stock Hatch with 1.6 16v and 2.0 8v would work as a step up the ladder rather than the enormous gap between stock hatch and modified that exists at the moment. A bit more go with out the the inevitabley large cost of modified.It seems at the moment there is nowhere to go for stock hatchers at the moment.

[Cryos]

Hard to say, but i think that expanding the stockhatch class would be a viable option for any rallycross championship, instead of just 1.6 8v's you could maybe add in 1.4 16v's 1.6 16v's and 2.0 8v/16v .

[ScottDay]

i agree with the adding of ,1.4 16v's 1.6 16v's and 2.0 8v/16v, but a brake away series is a no no!

[Roundy Mooney]

I'm not saying to throw the 1.616v and 2.0 8v in with exsisting car. Rather that they would run a new class with exactly the same rules as current stock hatch call it "hot hatch" for the moment. This would allow progress to cars like 106 gti, nova gsi, 205 1.9, civics. But I also think that specific weights would have to be brought in for each car from the start so the 205 challange does not happen again.:confused:

I also agree that a break away championchip would only serve to pull rallycross apart.

[Matti Alamaki]

1.4 16 valves are 100% eligible under current stock Hatch regulations. But, a 1600 16v class would be a step in the right direction. Bring it on...

[Carlos]

More variety is needed in the stock hatch, and a second class (hot hatch) sounds great. Weight minimums could be introduced so hot hatch could run with stock hatch on an even playing field untill numbers where up and it could run on its own. 16v cars are easier to come by and in more variations which would give us a chance to race differant machinery. It would also race the standard of cars usable by opening up more modern cars. 1.8/2.0 ltre cars on stock hatch regs, yes yes yes yes yes. Low budget racing with reasonably quick michinery and loads of variaty.

[Barrie]

I have been lucky enough to have known about this for along time, and am very excited about the prospect. Super-series will be the MSA championship anything else would be clubman. All the big name drivers home and some abroad are completely behind it, for rallycross to progress over here rallycross has come to a point where we need some fresh new ideas. Dont read to much into the Motorsport news article. The future is Super-series, rallycross drivers and fans will love it.

[bigted]

If the future is super series why not make the proposal open to the public domain on one of the many rallycross websites available?

[chunder]

Does anybodt serisouly think these guya are gonna get anywhere if they don't have the support of the governing body.
Are the MSA really gonna let a couple of blokes who think they can do better organise a rallycross championship. I don't think so, no matter who appealing it might be.
Would have been far more mature and worthwhile talking to a few big names, doing some groundwork and then presenting something in a professional manner to the MSA and BRDA. THat way you look serious and organised.
Little buit better than handoing out a few leaflets at a meeting!!

[RoyG]

Can someone explain "super-series"??

[RoyG]

Can someone explain "super-series"??

[Cryos]

Chunder, i think ill stop you there most championships are organised by one or two individuals and mainly not Large Bodyed organisations (unless its an FIA Supported Championship).

As an example chunder, yourself and myself if we so pleased could start up "World Rallycross Championship" now in reality that championship wont work for obvious reasons but if you can put a preposal forward for a championship that meats both Motorsport Ireland / MSA or FIA Rules for that type of sport the motorsport governing body for that country is obliged to grant an Championship permit (which is €1,000p.a euros over here i think).

"Super-Series" well, i think most people discribed the recently departed BTCC Super Tourers as an super-series. So maybe it is about top level Drivers and Cars competiting in a series.

It obvioulsy wont work because of the budget people run i.e in the stockhatch class which is keeping the British Championship togethr (irish dosent seem to have any problems in any class, an healthy imput of drivers in modified and a return for supercar drivers)....

Comments as always are welcome.

p.s: as big ted wrote "If the future is super series why not make the proposal open to the public domain on one of the many rallycross websites available?"

I havent recieved anything, but if you find it or get a copy ill put it up email as always : michael@rallycrossireland.com

[Barrie]

Sent you PM Chunder.