Sergio Perez - Can he still hack it?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Are you just ignoring the significant mistakes Russell has made in that period - like the totally unforced error in Singapore? 100% fanboy behaviour if so.

I'm not ignoring mistakes during the period between the comments.

The race in Singapore happened on 17 September. The comment 'George is at a key point as to whether he might be considered a genuine topliner in future' was made on 18 September?

I just think it is telling that 'the paddock' is able to make such big swings in their assessment of drivers over such a short period of time.

If Pérez can go from having a questionable temperament, to being a sure-fire cert for a drive in such a short time, then the opinion can swing the other way just as quickly.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

I think George Russell has had a very decent season, on par with that of Leclerc and Sainz.

Really? He's 8th in a car capable of 3rd. Even he says the season has been a disaster.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If Pérez can go from having a questionable temperament, to being a sure-fire cert for a drive in such a short time, then the opinion can swing the other way just as quickly.

You're taking things to extremes. I know you really love things to be black or white but it really just isn't like that in reality. Almost all drivers have plus points and downsides.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm not ignoring mistakes during the period between the comments.

The race in Singapore happened on 17 September. The comment 'George is at a key point as to whether he might be considered a genuine topliner in future' was made on 18 September?

I just think it is telling that 'the paddock' is able to make such big swings in their assessment of drivers over such a short period of time.

If Pérez can go from having a questionable temperament, to being a sure-fire cert for a drive in such a short time, then the opinion can swing the other way just as quickly.

Actually CR, I think many of the comments here about drivers are run by emotion and spur of the moment rhetoric rather than a systematic analysis of what is really happening in the real world.

Most of them don't carry a lot of weight and aren't anything to get worked up about.
When I did some analysis about Perez this season, I also looked at last season and alsob the performance of drivers who were number two to a dominant number one in their championship years.
Like Schumacher- Barrichello, Vettel-Webber, Hamilton-Bottas, Schumacher Irvine, just to name a few. I also looked at the scoring percentages of much earlier greats in their championship years. Barrichello was outstanding.
In 2004 taking second as his best possible reult on average he actually scored over 90% percentage of the points he could have taken had he been second in every race. One of the most outstanding performances ever by a number two.

Last year on this same basis Perez scored much better than this year, more than 20% better.

And although the RB19 gets talked up as being the most dominant F1 car ever it's not at all.
The Race has an interesting article on it and some replies have thoughtful replies showing that actually its max who makes it work so well. Any comment about car dominance undermines the brilliance of Max's contribution. A truly great year by Max.

For example, in 1965 Jim Clark had a scoring percentage, on my analysis of available points, to what Perez has had this year. And it's not about reliability.
It's about performance.
And how many second drivers were nowhere in relation to their lead drivers in the decades past when Lotus was winning world championships.
Yes, Ronnie Peterson was great but those were Senna Prost type pairings. Many others were nothing like that.

Perez is not in the Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso, Leclerc, class at all. Norris, Sainz, and Piastri, are also a step up.
Hulkenberg could serve the same purpose Perez was hired to do, but Horner knew what he was getting when he hired Perez.
In his first year in F2 Perez, in 09, Perez drove for Arden, which was owned by? Horner.

George won in Brazil last year, had been talked up as the replacement for Hamilton. Bla, bla, bla.
Same with Perez earlier this year in terms of the championship. What happened in '23? They both had rough years but have still performed.
But people's opinions aren't always well analyzed, thought through, nor enunciated.
We all have opinions, but if they're not supported by some real evidence that's all it is. Nothing to get worried about.

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Really? He's 8th in a car capable of 3rd. Even he says the season has been a disaster.

Ok so we can say the exact same thing about Lewis Hamilton in 2022. Russell beat him bigtime. Sainz beat him too.

Russell beat Hamilton in qualifying in 2023 yet you are trying to say his 2023 season in any way compares to Perez vs Max ?

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Same with Perez earlier this year in terms of the championship. What happened in '23? They both had rough years but have still performed.

Perez missed out on Q3 8 times. And George Russell tied Hamilton in qualifying head to heads. And gets the tie breaker for beating Hamilton in sprint qualifying.

So there is zero comparison between Russell and Perez's 2023 seasons. And its funny how Russells 2022 season doesn't seem to count for anything. Where he finished 35 points ahead of Hamilton , won Mercedes only race of the last 2 years and got 19 top 5's.

Hamilton made up excuses in 2022. Now he had a built in excuse for 2024 and we all know what that is.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

Hamilton made up excuses in 2022. Now he had a built in excuse for 2024 and we all know what that is.

Oh. We're back in "every thread is actually about people other than those the thread is about" territory. Brilliant.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Greem

Oh. We're back in "every thread is actually about people other than those the thread is about" territory. Brilliant.

Indeed.
But willing to give the new kid on the block a month to be able to read the room a bit.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Greem

Oh. We're back in "every thread is actually about people other than those the thread is about" territory. Brilliant.

No Graeme, only all the threads in the F1 subforum......

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Greem

Oh. We're back in "every thread is actually about people other than those the thread is about" territory. Brilliant.

My apologies for going off topic with that comment. The gist of the reply was in response to someone comparing Perez in 2023 to Russell in 2023. Which is simply untenable.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

My apologies for going off topic with that comment. The gist of the reply was in response to someone comparing Perez in 2023 to Russell in 2023. Which is simply untenable.

Would have thought those comparisons were quite relevant, considering both are the lesser heralded teammates to multiple world champions in front running teams.

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Would have thought those comparisons were quite relevant, considering both are the lesser heralded teammates to multiple world champions in front running teams.

Perez is 34 year old mid field veteran that started as a pay driver and who was hired to be a #2. Russell is rising 26 year old from the Mercedes junior program. They in no way compare.

Perez hasn't come close to beating Verstappen in points or qualifying head to heads in the last 2 years.

[Skam85]

I outlined exactly how they compare, you've just chosen to ignore it.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

Perez is 34 year old mid field veteran that started as a pay driver and who was hired to be a #2. Russell is rising 26 year old from the Mercedes junior program. They in no way compare.

Perez hasn't come close to beating Verstappen in points or qualifying head to heads in the last 2 years.

Are you Steve?

Literally nobody else seems to think this highly of Russell.

Facts, Perez was in the Ferrari programme and has won multiple races with multiple teams. Not that I necessarily think he's faster than George.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

Perez hasn't come close to beating Verstappen in points or qualifying head to heads in the last 2 years.

What you might find (from looking at this thread) is that (I suspect) many here are tired of the entire Perez discussion until there is really something new to discuss. There was a good bit of discussion back and forth with strong opinions on both extremes during 2023 season. Especially with the rumors of him be replaced either mid-season or for 2024. And lots of discussion about his performance vs. Max. With all variations of... Max is such a stellar talent he destroys everyone, the car is built around Max (particularly strong front and loose rear) and most teammates struggle to be confident in that car and lastly... he did bring home second place in the championship. All good and valid points.

For me... I am curious to see how things go in 2024 and no matter what happens it will generate discussion. But until we start racing, for me, it's hard to get excited about diving back into the entire Perez topic. But we are only days away from that.

Richard

[Aysedasi]

Totally agree.