Could Jacques Villeneuve have become one of the all time greats?

Yoong Montoya · 23 Jul 2002, 19:30 (Ref:341012)

He's a great driver, and I can't help wondering what would have happened if he hadn't joined BAR in 1999. If he had gone to McLaren in 1999 (he could have couldn't he?), do you think he would have won the 1999 and 2000 championships?
He would have had to beat Mika Hakkinen and Eddie Irvine in 1999 and Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher in 2000. Imagine how interesting the racing would have been though!!

Jay · 23 Jul 2002, 19:50 (Ref:341035)

I don't know about an all-time great... but with a competitive car he could definately have won a few more world championships.

neilap · 23 Jul 2002, 19:50 (Ref:341037)

He will definately go down in my book as one of the best ever if he stays with BAR and helps to make them a championship winning team. I dont feel he is as obsessed with racing as MS so he may not have won as much as him.

shiny side up! · 23 Jul 2002, 20:46 (Ref:341096)

Jay, how would winning a few more world championships not qualify you as one of the all-time greats? Even if you are only the World Champion once, it surely isn't a fluke. But if you do it multiple times... surely you have earned the right to be an all-time great?

As his career stands now, I don't feel comfortable calling him an all-time great. He could have been. Maybe he still can be. I think he is still among the best 3 or 5 drivers in the paddock. Certainly he is one of the few that has the fortitude to race with TGF, and maybe even come out on top once or twice...

Mal · 23 Jul 2002, 21:16 (Ref:341132)

Jacques, may be a great driver, but will always be in the shadow of his dad - IMO the greatest - or potentially, only sadly to be lost in his prime - just when he had the car to even half justify his talent. Gilles in the 1980/81 Ferrari was like winning in a Minardi - other drivers could not get it on the grid, but Gilles could win in it. Enough Said.

Lee Janotta · 23 Jul 2002, 21:50 (Ref:341158)

I think it'd be impossible for a second-generation driver to be considered one of the all-time greats... But Jacques could have come close. I think he might've taken the championship last year if he'd stayed with Williams... If he'd gone to McLaren, he'd have 3 championships by now!

Jordi · 23 Jul 2002, 22:06 (Ref:341169)

Of course he could have been. He is still the youngest CART and F1 champion...

If you look at all the ifs both Villeneuves have.... they could share 6 titles between both if everything had gone better, or differently.

Raven · 23 Jul 2002, 22:29 (Ref:341191)

If he'd gone to McLaren I doubt he would've beaten Mika in 99 or 2000 and winning the title in last years Williams? No chance.

lucky strike · 23 Jul 2002, 22:50 (Ref:341200)

Quote:

Originally posted by Raven
If he'd gone to McLaren I doubt he would've beaten Mika in 99 or 2000 and winning the title in last years Williams? No chance.

dito! I think he is still one of the best but he would have never beating anyone in Williams in 1999-2001. Altough I am not sure about Mika in 1999/2000.
You can't compare him with DC. He is classes better.

Jordi · 23 Jul 2002, 23:07 (Ref:341211)

not in a Williams, but if he had a McLaren...

Kretzman JB fan · 23 Jul 2002, 23:13 (Ref:341217)

I think thatif he'd have gone to McLaren he probably wouldn't have gotten along with Ron Dennis because Dennis favored the Finn Hakkinen. He would have won some more races, maybe a championship. If he would have stayed with Williams he would have endured a year like 1998 for a couple of years. He would have won some races in 2001 and 2002, but he wouldn't have won any championships. If he develops BAR into a winner he'll rank high on my list with recent great drivers.

The best he can do for BAR is to develop them from the horrendous team they were in 1999 to a winner and possible championship contender in the future. From the sounds of it it sounds like it could be done.

Valve Bounce · 23 Jul 2002, 23:39 (Ref:341234)

Where does all this Developing BAR into a championship team come from? OK, apart from Neilap, I mean.

Just because Dave Richards joined BAR and says so doesn't mean that BAR will suddenly be transformed into a better team than Ferrari, Williams, McLaren or Renault.

Jacques has been with this team for yonks, and it is still rubbish. The inclusion of Bunsen will not suddenly give the team sparkle to improve at the speed of light - and that's what they need to improve at to better the top four teams.
I think we need a reality check on this subject.

Jacques made the mistake of joining BAR, thinking that his best mate Pollock plus Honda power plus oodles of tobacco cash will transform the team into greatness - so far he seems to have made the same mistake as Emerson Fittipaldi, that's all. BAR so far hsn't developed a decent chassis to even compete with Jordan and Sauber, let alone the top 4. Just look at the way Renault went about the job of developing their car, from total rubbish last year to where they are now. Bah!! Bar Bah!!

Valve [img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

f1manoz · 24 Jul 2002, 00:35 (Ref:341253)

JV could have been an all time great - could have.

But because he's spent the last four years trundling around in the midfield picking up occassional points instead of fighting for wins, we'll never really know his full potential. We only got a glimpse, really, in 1996-97 of what he was truly capable of.

Inigo Montoya · 24 Jul 2002, 17:44 (Ref:341777)

Not a chance... Won WDC in best car, when TGF was labouring in vastly inferior car. In a Mac the following two years, he might have won the WDC (though I think Mika was faster).

All time great? Forget it.

Kex · 24 Jul 2002, 18:06 (Ref:341795)

In all honesty JV is not, and probably never will be, an all-time great. He's in the same "group of driving ability" as drivers such as Hill and Coulthard.

Schumacher sorted out a mediocre Ferrari in a couple of years (with a bit of help naturally). JV has not sorted out a mediocre BAR in four years. JV's quick but I wouldn't place him in the top 5 best drivers of the moment, regardless of the car.

freud · 24 Jul 2002, 20:48 (Ref:341939)

When he arrived in F1, JV had all signs of becoming a great. But instead, he has been on a steady downhill path since then.

1996 - he was exceptional
1997 - he drove very well
1998 - he drove well
1999 - 2001 - consistent decrease in performance & motivation levels

Many people in paddock think that JV has converted into a Casanova who is more interested in a good, hefty cash inflow, girls and off-track fun than winning races.

It would be interesting to see JV drive once again for a top level team like Ferrari which is virtually 'impossible'.

The best for JV would be to get a shot at 'Le mans' with a real good team. Its no use toying around with a BAR or at maximum a Renault.

Miss Hardt · 24 Jul 2002, 22:48 (Ref:342029)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordi
Of course he could have been. He is still the youngest CART and F1 champion...

If you look at all the ifs both Villeneuves have.... they could share 6 titles between both if everything had gone better, or differently.

So true...

Valve Bounce · 24 Jul 2002, 23:07 (Ref:342044)

Thre is a verse with the last two lines which that goes something this :

Quote:

And many a rose is born to bloom
and waste its sweetness on the desert air.

It's either one of Wordsworth's or Goldsmith's poems - can't remembre which. Can somebody help me out on this, because it reminds me so much of Jacques.

Valve

Miss Hardt · 24 Jul 2002, 23:12 (Ref:342047)

You changed the color of your smiley????

Jordi · 24 Jul 2002, 23:19 (Ref:342054)

Quote:

Originally posted by freud
When he arrived in F1, JV had all signs of becoming a great. But instead, he has been on a steady downhill path since then.

1996 - he was exceptional
1997 - he drove very well
1998 - he drove well
1999 - 2001 - consistent decrease in performance & motivation levels

It must be F1 then. He was on the up in CART....

Jordi · 24 Jul 2002, 23:21 (Ref:342055)

But probably Jacques is a better driver than ever

Valve Bounce · 24 Jul 2002, 23:21 (Ref:342056)

you noticed

Valve

Miss Hardt · 25 Jul 2002, 00:09 (Ref:342088)

Aha...but the last one is the best solution...though I prefer green.

Legend · 25 Jul 2002, 01:41 (Ref:342115)

Someday some Villeneuve will be the greatest ever I guess. I think Jacques has wasted a lot of talent driving for BAR. But look at this family!!! To great drivers of two generations in same family. Who knows? Maybe Jacques’ son or his grand son will become a world champion at some time in the future. Is this a genetic issue? I dare not to say but they are good, no doubt!!!

JR27 · 25 Jul 2002, 01:44 (Ref:342117)

no

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