Ingall on RPM.

[stmorri]

Interesting to note that on RPM Russell Ingall mentioned that qualifying has become so important to finish up the front and that the races quite often lack variety. He suggested reverse grid races to liven things up and add entertainment value citing the success of such races in the development category. Willowbank was processional at the pointy end of the field with most of the passing being done in the pits, so I tend to agree with him......Thoughts anyone?

[Lowndesfan6]

He's only mentioned that qual is so important because he's crap at it........compared to his team mate.

These days qual isn't as important as it was back in the 90's when you had 3 20 minute sprint races. At least now you have some time to pass cars.

[Silver GT]

Originally Posted by Lowndesfan6

He's only mentioned that qual is so important because he's crap at it........compared to his team mate.

These days qual isn't as important as it was back in the 90's when you had 3 20 minute sprint races. At least now you have some time to pass cars.

how much time do you need....Ingall followed Tander for near on 20 laps and couldnt get past.....i think the only way Lowndes could have passed Ambrose was as he did, in the pits

I thought the race was a bit processional as well....it lacked any real excitement other than Richards crash.

Reverse grid racing, I think, would be good as well

[retro]

I felt a little for Ingall yesterday over the SBR pit call......he really is the #2 driver...something he needs to address.

[peckstar]

if ingall had have been in front them it would have been ambrose who had the problem.

HRT did exactly the same thing, except only changed two tyres and skaife went backwards as a result.

[mayhem]

Ask Dean Canto his thoughts on reverse grids.

If you want more overtaking, reduce aero, give them two compounds of tyres, and take out other driver aids liek anti-roll bars etc.

[Razor]

I think that reverse grids would work well. It brings a more serious competition, more sponsorship showings and more entertainment. Does any one agree or disagree?

[peckstar]

you make it sound like that only happens in reverse grid races mayhem. even in our current series fast drivers start at the back.

running into the back of a car is not a reverse grid problem. its a general problem that can be improved on.

more reverse grid racing please. if a leading driver wants it. thats good enough for me to want it. you cant argue against it entertainm ent value

[racer69]

Yes, lets reward the race winners with poor grid positions and then reward the backmarkers with pole position!!!

[Razor]

Good point, Peckstar.

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by racer69

Yes, lets reward the race winners with poor grid positions and then reward the backmarkers with pole position!!!

racer, that's a good point. There would have to be a generous points reward for the fastest qualifiers, otherwise the best may not win the championship and there is always the scenario that some teams would deliberately qualify poorly to start further up the front.

[peckstar]

the best may not win the championship currently.

ingall is saying the fasted qualifier will win the championship, not necessary the best driver.

our current points situation. also means the best may not win.

if they truely are the best they will be able to come from the back. it continually happens in the HDPC.

i think that the reverse grid should carry less weighting than the other two races though.

you look at someone like ingall, never been a great qualifyer. but in races its a different story very competitive, able to pass cars not just race away from the front.

reverse grid means we get to see the racers and not just the qualifiers

[racer69]

What you seem to be saying peckstar is that the racers aren't able to get to the front because they can't overtake the good qualifiers. How exactly will a reverse grid fix this? The faster drivers will be behind the slower drivers again (if Lowdnes could only pass Ambrose in a pitstop, he'd be behind him again anyway in the next race because of a reverse grid....)

Qualifying is a part of racing, and why should overtaking by easy?

I thought this was motor racing?

[peckstar]

i didnt say that at all. i said ingall is a poor qualifier", but he has still come runner up in the championship 4 times so he must be a good racer.

it is motor racing. but motor racing does not mean the fastest qualifyer has too be at the front. in horse racing the best horses get handicapped. in professional running (ie stawell gift) the fastest runners run further.

Why should just because you qualify first mena you get to be at the front for every race(assuming you dont crash or have problems) why cant it mean you start at the back for race two. then average it for race three (or four, or five).

you take alook at HDPC the fastest drivers still end up winning the round. but sponsors get more promotion, we get more entertainment, We get passing, and we get more variation, so that a driver with certain syles does not get favoured

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by racer69

I thought this was motor racing?

I agree. Entertainment is an important aspect but somewhere a line needs to be drawn. I'd say that line is before a reverse grid race. Reverse grids races do serve a purpose but not in the ATCC.

[peckstar]

Why draw the line there. its still racing if you start at the back or the front.

why not just line them up based on championship position then. that would be racing and would meet your sanitized criteria

[D.R.T.]

If you are prepared to put in a reverse grid because under the current system because drivers/organisers feel that they cant put on a good enough race, why not introduce a mandatory yellow flag period at 25% and 75 % race distances to try and entice overtaking.

If the races aren't exciting enough theres a reason for that and the race format isnt it.

[peckstar]

your not allowed to pass under yellow, not sure how that would help.


why are you against reverse grid racing?

[Hazza]

Why not BTCC style? Reverse Top-10 for race three or something?

[Mattracer]

Another way to look at the situation might be to remove the shootout which is contrived and made-for-TV anyway. Funny thing is, it is more often than not not shown on TV. Going back to "pure" qualifying for a 60 min session, no lap restrictions, no slow/fast 50%. Everybody all in and time your run to perfection, take your chances and tough luck if you miss it.That way, no one can claim to be unduly disadvantaged or the conditins changed etc. Ultimately the driver is responsible for the choices made and when to time the run. That would seem to be the most pure and uncontroversial way to do it.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

your not allowed to pass under yellow, not sure how that would help.


why are you against reverse grid racing?

Once the field is condensed it is much easier to overtake, this is where much of the overtaking is currently done.

I'm against reverse grid racing because in my opinion it is not what racing is about. As racer says if your the quickest guy out there, put all that effort to qualify and race well, why should you be penalised and lose much needed points, put your championship at risk all for a contrived situation.

[peckstar]

. what is racing about then?
if you are the quickest guy out there, thern why does it matter where do you start.

why should qualifying or grid position detremines who goes at the front. why not a random draw.

qualifying is just one way to decide who goes at the front. it is not the onlyway. and it shouldn't be the only way.

i would have thought qualifying was a contrived situation.

it seems too many people are scared of something new. when in fact in can be quite interesting and shows a different type of racer , one that can pass cars, which is just as much part of racing, as one who can drive fast, or stroke a car along in an enduro

[emjaya]

last week it was I need my sponser to think I am lifting sales,
this week it's my team mate out qualifies me we need reverse grids

Russell Ingal on RPM is 60 seconds with a man who never quite made it and who is starting to realize he never will.

[xrystl]

Reverse grid races , or any combination of the same shoot down the need for operation blueprint which was intended to have all the vehicles equal - reverse grid is a system of handicap and doesn't fit a "championship" event .
Blueprint sounds good , but now there is little actual racing , more just holding your position in the que - contrived pit stops seem to be the greatest equalizer , being able to gain a few positions in the pits and not on the track .
IMHO it's starting to become boring and the "sport" needs a transfusion of some sort to make the "Racing" interesting - half the problem is their stupid points system which encourages mediocrity .

[SRabbit]

boy dont we all have short memorys?? when the reverse was a part of the series it was howled down no end because of the fact the guys who are usually at the back get a rush of blood when put up the front and start to get all heroic - suddenly they think they are driving a car that is 3 feet wider than it used to be - dont you all remember the unneccesary incidents involving top guys being taken out by one of slower cars because now it was a race for position? Then there is the position that you could 'play' with your position to manipulate the maximum points - as they used to - qualify up the front, finish in the top 3 or 4, second race finish say midpack which in the points for these 3 race rounds there is only 2 points between positions so you dont lose much, but then for the reverse grid you are at least 15 - 20 cars in front of the guy you would normally be racing with a nice healthy car wrapped around you. I hate them - always have, always will..... its the pure defintion of contrived racing. Whats wrong with a race format with decent points where the fastest guy who wins the most is champion? If soemone comes out and does a 'schmi' then so what - if the team/car/driver is that good then they deserve it. You wont see the Aussies only getting to face 4 ball overs against Bangladesh in a test match will you? If the competition isnt up to it - pick your game up. Increase test days. Keep the morning warm up for every round. Why not have a 4 hour practice/test session on the friday of each round? If you want competiton to be tighter you have to put the drivers in the cars more, the engineers under the car more and let them get a handle on the car for the track that they are at - you dont do it by a rubbish points system which encourages drivers NOT to pass - for 6 points? you want me to do what and risk beaching it? no way!...OK so the big dollar teams will do better but to be honest I'd rather see 20 cars going for it hammer and tongs instead of 32/34 cars who have to be encouraged, enticed and rewarded for finishing 3 laps down....c'mon boy...c'mon....*clicking finger*....you can do it....you'll get 6 points just like you do every round....c'mon......