Did we just see the end of ....(spoiler Alert)

[davehenrie]

Everything about St. Pete said the Audi should lose. 3rd on the grid, long long wheel base, taller front tires, longer refueling. The tight narrow
St Pete circuit was almost Anti-Audi. yet the monster torque clearly showed how potent the car is.
The LMP2 cars can empty the fuel tank, block up the radiators, go to full on Qualifying mode, and they can match the R10. But when you fill up the tanks and open the cooling, even in a tight track, the GRUNT of the diesel simply overwhelms the supposed advantages of the P2s.
If I were Aston, or Ferrari, I'd be looking at finding some technical partner like Cummings or Catepillar to get a V-12 Diesel stuffed into a GT1 package.

dave henrie

[dj choc ice]

tbh its not the end of whatever it is whether it be petrol engines or whatever.

the pro diesel rules mean the diesel R10's have a LOT more power and torque than their rivals bar the diesel peugeot 908 HDI FAP, besides the LMP2 cars design means that they are slower, they have not got as good a power to weight ratio, despite the lower weight they dont have enough power to work it to their advantage or torque.

not just that, the LMP2 cars run on smaller narrower tyres and with smaller brakes, that works against them as well, the LMP2 cars run in a different class to the audi's with different regs, the creation in LMP1 though is with a team on a steep learning curve, and also with unproven and unready tyre package.

wait and see, its not the end, the audi's will beat the LMP2 cars because of the way the regulations are set out, once porsche or honda/acura decide to go LMP1 they will be even and beating the audi's, but until then.........

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

tbh its not the end of whatever it is whether it be petrol engines or whatever.

the pro diesel rules mean the diesel R10's have a LOT more power and torque than their rivals bar the diesel peugeot 908 HDI FAP, besides the LMP2 cars design means that they are slower, they have not got as good a power to weight ratio, despite the lower weight they dont have enough power to work it to their advantage or torque.

not just that, the LMP2 cars run on smaller narrower tyres and with smaller brakes, that works against them as well, the LMP2 cars run in a different class to the audi's with different regs, the creation in LMP1 though is with a team on a steep learning curve, and also with unproven and unready tyre package.

wait and see, its not the end, the audi's will beat the LMP2 cars because of the way the regulations are set out, once porsche or honda/acura decide to go LMP1 they will be even and beating the audi's, but until then.........

Put simply, wait until a decent field of LMP1's gets a go at Audi's heels, and we'll see what this year's R10 is really made of.

[dj choc ice]

exactly, ala rollcentre pescarolo and the charouz lola judd , they look to be the best privateer LMP1 cars so far, and yet we still have not seen what the lola audi of swiss spirit can do or the new creation CA07H and arena zytek 07S.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

If I were Aston, or Ferrari, I'd be looking at finding some technical partner like Cummings or Catepillar to get a V-12 Diesel stuffed into a GT1 package.
dave henrie

Diesel is not allowed in GT1 and GT2 (and LMP2?). Correct me if I am wrong.

[dj choc ice]

nope diesel is not allowed in LMP2, GT1 and GT2, and good bloody riddance i dont want to see ANY ferrari, porsche or aston martin or corvette with a diesel engine in.

it would literally be sacrilege for say a DB9 aston to have a diesel engine in it, imagine the response from buyers and critics, aston would dive into debt quicker than you can say prodrive.

[cmk]

If it's got the performance, why would you care what fuel goes into it? That's like saying you don't want something to run on ethanol just because it isn't gas. Talk about stick in the mud.

We won't see the diesels in GT cars (in the immediate future) so don't you worry. But why are people so afraid of well-performing diesels?

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by cmk

If it's got the performance, why would you care what fuel goes into it? That's like saying you don't want something to run on ethanol just because it isn't gas. Talk about stick in the mud.

We won't see the diesels in GT cars (in the immediate future) so don't you worry. But why are people so afraid of well-performing diesels?

the reason why is because i have driven diesel road cars and they are horrid, they have a miniscule power band and then, when you are in the powerband you have to change up gear because you have run out of revs.

they sound awful, dull, quiet and boring they ALL sound the same, even the BMW 335D sounds the same as a skoda fabia VRS.

they are not nice to drive, a petrol car is easier and a LOT more enjoyable to drive and for a sportscar has the noise which is a big factor in a car for me.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

Everything about St. Pete said the Audi should lose. 3rd on the grid, long long wheel base, taller front tires, longer refueling. The tight narrow
St Pete circuit was almost Anti-Audi. yet the monster torque clearly showed how potent the car is.
The LMP2 cars can empty the fuel tank, block up the radiators, go to full on Qualifying mode, and they can match the R10. But when you fill up the tanks and open the cooling, even in a tight track, the GRUNT of the diesel simply overwhelms the supposed advantages of the P2s.
If I were Aston, or Ferrari, I'd be looking at finding some technical partner like Cummings or Catepillar to get a V-12 Diesel stuffed into a GT1 package.

dave henrie

The Audis advantage has nothing to do with the diesel engine, it's how it should be, the clues in the name, LMP1 vs LMP2.

In the LMS the best privater P2's have always been slower than the best privateer P1's, a straight fight, without any factory cars or diesel engines confusing matters.

I'm quite sure Zytek or Creation would have also been ahead of the best P2's at St Pete's, all being equal, i.e. drivers/tyres.

[chewymonster]

You can always make fake exhaust sound with speakers. Plus, a ricer Honda Civic with 105 hp and a fart can exhaust sure makes a lot of sound (as much as any Ferrari), but it is still slow.

[cmk]

Fair play, DJ. I don't think the sonics are fixed, though...not from listening to the 908. So that's a strawman. The Audi is quiet because they wanted it to be.

The powerband argument is true. I think that making racing diesels can only help alleviate that and increase the fun factor, though. I'm guessing the R10 or 908 aren't boring to drive.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

The tight narrow St Pete circuit

When you say tight, I suppose you mean slower corners? The course has multiple places where the cars can (and did) go four wide.

[chewymonster]

The R10 is also quiet because the turbocharger uses the sound energy while others just throw it away. This makes for a more powerful and fuel efficient racecar.

[Mal]

I would think it is not beyond the realm that Audi will launch a diesel version of the road going R8 in the future and maybe then they will take it GT racing.

Also I would expect the road versions of the Audi diesel to be a lot more advanced than previous diesel road cars - I believe the Q7 is the first car to get it but I havent seen any reports on it yet.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

The R10 is also quiet because the turbocharger uses the sound energy while others just throw it away. This makes for a more powerful and fuel efficient racecar.

Did you help Algore produce that hokey "greenie" movie, that the gullible and naive are so in love with??

[chewymonster]

More powerful and more fuel efficient are very important in endurance racing. The R10 TDI accomplishes both. Go read the Dailysportscar article, the interiew with the R10 TDI engine main guy. You do know that the turbo also recaptures engine heat and turns it into mechanical energy to pump more air into the engine. The reason why the R8 was more fuel efficient (FSI as well of course) What a a silly greanie concept to make more power for free.

Or would you rather makes tons of noise with little go, like those fart cans on riced out Civics. Making noise is easy, take off the exhaust pipe.

[kingkai]

Originally Posted by Mal

I would think it is not beyond the realm that Audi will launch a diesel version of the road going R8 in the future and maybe then they will take it GT racing.

Fighting their own lambo's, don't think so.
In future, they will have a new car for it.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

More powerful and more fuel efficient are very important in endurance racing. The R10 TDI accomplishes both. Go read the Dailysportscar article, the interiew with the R10 TDI engine main guy. You do know that the turbo also recaptures engine heat and turns it into mechanical energy to pump more air into the engine. The reason why the R8 was more fuel efficient (FSI as well of course) What a a silly greanie concept to make more power for free.

Or would you rather makes tons of noise with little go, like those fart cans on riced out Civics. Making noise is easy, take off the exhaust pipe.

I read the article. Give me the quotes that say what you are saying.
I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying I did not see them.

I especially want to see where putting a blower on an engne improves gas mileage, again I am not saying you are wrong but I want to see the quote.
Bob

[chewymonster]

Turbo and blower is not the same thing. Supercharger takes energy from the engine to spin. The turbo takes exhaust gasses (+sound) and spins the turbo. This is basically free energy as other cars throw it away. Kinda like a mini hybrid, but simpler and more performance oriented. (March 3rd, click Interviews and go to Ulrich Baretzky Interview)

“Noise is also a form of energy and we wanted to avoid wasting it. We already made progress in that area with the R8 with the high efficiency turbocharger system that we used on that car. The R10 is a quiet car because it also has a high efficiency turbocharger system that absorbs most of the energy coming out of the exhaust.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Turbo and blower is not the same thing. Supercharger takes energy from the engine to spin. The turbo takes exhaust gasses (+sound) and spins the turbo. This is basically free energy as other cars throw it away. Kinda like a mini hybrid, but simpler and more performance oriented. (March 3rd, click Interviews and go to Ulrich Baretzky Interview)

“Noise is also a form of energy and we wanted to avoid wasting it. We already made progress in that area with the R8 with the high efficiency turbocharger system that we used on that car. The R10 is a quiet car because it also has a high efficiency turbocharger system that absorbs most of the energy coming out of the exhaust.

A blower is a blower, drive system is irrelevant.
The exhaust pipe blows on the supercharger's turbine blades and around and around they go.
Maybe the pit crew shouts at the car to make it go faster past the pits.

Noise is a form of energy, blah, blah, blah--that is the biggest crock of dung I have ever heard.(Unless they are into breaking wine glasses.)
They are making an excuse for the quite engine by saying noisei s engergy; it is, but that has squat to do with the car.
Gee, maybe they should hook up a microphone to the drivers face and have him shout into the fuel system.

I know exactly how a blower works whether mechanical or exhaust driven; son, I have literally forgotten more about this than you know as I studied it in school.

Get a book on automotive power systems and start reading, your ignorance is blatant.
Bob

[bdwoody]

Steady on bob !

[chewymonster]

Wait, you are telling me that the turbocharger is not more efficient FI system than a supercharger? If that was true, Audi would have used a superchager on the R8. And if they could achieve the same power/efficiency with a loud race car, they would.

Efficiency
This is the turbo's biggest advantage. The turbocharger is generally more economical to operate as it as it is driven primarily by potential energy in the exhaust gasses that would otherwise be lost out the exhaust, whereas a supercharger draws power from the crank, which can be used to turn the wheels. The turbocharger's impeller is also powered only under boost conditions, so there is less parasitic drag while the impeller is not spinning. The turbocharger, however, is not free of inefficiency as it does create additional exhaust backpressure and exhaust flow interruption.

From http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19

Of course they are making stuff up as they want to sell less superchargers.

While the sound energy is probably a fairly small part, it probably plays some role. Quiet in a luxury car is also a very positive trait.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

While the sound energy is probably a fairly small part, it probably plays some role. Quiet in a luxury car is also a very positive trait.

We ain't talking luxury race cars. SOUND, very very LOUD sound is a positive trait in sports cars.

How can you tell if your race exhaust is loud enough? When you crank over the motor it will set off at least 5 car alarms

[bdwoody]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

We ain't talking luxury race cars. SOUND, very very LOUD sound is a positive trait in sports cars.

How can you tell if your race exhaust is loud enough? When you crank over the motor it will set off at least 5 car alarms

I'am with ya on the sound thing but over here we have these GREEN medlers trying to ruin it all grrrrrrrrr.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

A blower is a blower, drive system is irrelevant.
The exhaust pipe blows on the supercharger's turbine blades and around and around they go.

I know exactly how a blower works whether mechanical or exhaust driven; son, I have literally forgotten more about this than you know as I studied it in school.

Get a book on automotive power systems and start reading, your ignorance is blatant.
Bob

This is incorrect. I assume you know how a supercharger and turbocharger work? The are very different animals in design, function, and result. A "blower" is a term only given to supercharger.