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Old 21 Jul 2012, 12:39 (Ref:3109443)   #51
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Originally Posted by Jonerz View Post
Will help all of ACO racing in addition to the WEC:

WEC should be an LMP1 championship only. The ACO opened the ILMC up to GT's because of the factory involvement in GTE. If you want to make LMP1 a manufacturer class, don't reward manufacturers for going to a different class! If manufacturers want to be World Champions they must compete in LMP1.

Piggyback off of existing strong races. If the WEC can put together an eight to twelve car LMP1 field that would be more beneficial to ACO style sports car racing than robbing the ELMS and other ACO championships of entrants by effectively creating a competing championship. It might be too late with the current death knells we're hearing about the ELMS.

Round 1 Sebring ALMS
Round 2 Spa ELMS
Round 3 Le Mans
Round 4 Silverstone ELMS
Round 5 Japan/China AsLMS
Round 6 Petit Le Mans ALMS

Go where the crowds are and don't hurt existing events and partners by robbing them of content like factory cars or marquis races.

Finally develop some way to reward manufacturers for involvement in your partner series (ALMS, ELMS, AsLMS). The benefit to the WEC is to have perhaps a dozen races outside of the Championship events that draw eyeballs to ACO style racing and the premier brands outside of the short, yet strung out WEC series season. It also rewards your partners (who have helped save/build) the sport of sports car racing which delivers great content to Le Mans and now the WEC year-in, year-out.

I don't know if a "to enter the WEC you must have at least one car entered in one of ALMS, AsLMS, or ELMS" would work, but a system that would actually BENEFIT ACO style racing, not just transfer content from one area to another (i.e. the WEC currently) would be cool.

Not for the WEC: Take displacement limitations off of the GTE class to help lessen the need for waivers. Further changes to GTE should include the allowance and balancing of hybrid drive trains and more liberal allowance of forced induction where it exists on the road car homologation.

Chris
Even though I would like to see a functional WEC with LMP1, LMP2 and GTE it's not really feasible so I agree with every point of this post! I do have my concerns about the AsLMS and the Japanese round of WEC, it would be a shame if such a sporstcar nation wouldn't get a race with a proper grid.
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Old 21 Jul 2012, 14:01 (Ref:3109462)   #52
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Um, should you replace Bahrain with Abu Dhabi, as well as replacing Fuji with Suzuka if ever?
It was just an example. Personally I would go to Autopolis (because the track looks interesting, but Suzuka would work) and Eastern Creek.

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I Rosputnik doesn't have a bad idea. However, the older I get, the more I realise, that championships are overrated. There's only two that seriously count, the F1 and WRC titles. Everything else? It's all about winning big races in those series. A "World Sportscar/GT Championship", under any guise, is pointless. What does winning those series mean? Nothing. While it may only be one race and it's not called a "World Championship", the Le Mans 24 hour is , in effect, a World Championship event on it's own, even if it's an unofficial title.

My advice to improve the WEC, is not to have it. That is not having a crack at it.
I'd admit, I think I have spent too much time fantasizing about World Championships this and that (Maybe it's an age thing?), and seeing manufacturers pulling out and championships being culled over the past week does make you put things into perspective.

I still believe WEC is a good idea as an alternative to F1, but if everything falls down in the end I would be ok with a three or four round invitational/cup style events. If racing is failing to work as a marketing tool then it could be time to pull back and have an emphasis on the sporting side of things.

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Old 21 Jul 2012, 17:35 (Ref:3109499)   #53
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Even though I would like to see a functional WEC with LMP1, LMP2 and GTE it's not really feasible so I agree with every point of this post! I do have my concerns about the AsLMS and the Japanese round of WEC, it would be a shame if such a sporstcar nation wouldn't get a race with a proper grid.
Thanks! Obviously AsLMS has failed to start every time someone has turned the crank on the concept, but China is maturing and may become a nation like the US that can support its own LMS.

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Old 21 Jul 2012, 19:56 (Ref:3109525)   #54
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China is maturing and may become a nation like the US that can support its own LMS.
Yeah, the way they've canceled almost every remaining motorsport event of the 2012 calendar clearly shows this, as does their glorious history with street circuit events

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Old 21 Jul 2012, 23:19 (Ref:3109586)   #55
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Yeah, the way they've canceled almost every remaining motorsport event of the 2012 calendar clearly shows this, as does their glorious history with street circuit events
I meant more in terms of culturally. I think cancelled street races speak more to Champ Cars desperation in its dying years and more recently the Chinese government trying to wain their public off of western influences. So clearly it could go both ways. I think there is a demand amongst the Chinese people for things like racing but obviously big brother has the final/only say.

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Old 22 Jul 2012, 06:34 (Ref:3109631)   #56
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 09:18 (Ref:3109667)   #57
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As far as the cars go i'd only tweak the rules for GTE with regard to getting rid of the limit on engine displacement, if it's in the road car and has been produced in high enough numbers (high enough to avoid any homologation specials) then they can have in the race car - maybe they could have a sliding scale similar to what IMSA used for GTPs to determine the air restrictor/fuel flow limit

The main change I would make would be with the calendar, it would look something like this:

1) Philip Island 6 Hours (Feb) - with AsLMS
2) Sebring 12 Hours (Mar) - with ALMS
3) Monza 6 Hours (Apr) - with ELMS
4) Spa 6 Hours (May) - with ELMS
5) Le Mans (Jun)
6) Nurburgring 6 Hours (Jul) - with ELMS
7) Silverstone 6 Hours (Aug) - with ELMS
8) Interlagos 1000 miles/10 Hours (Sep)
9) India 6 Hours (Oct) - with AsLMS
10) Fuji 6 Hours (Nov) - with AsLMS

I would like to have included PLM but it wouldn't have been practical with the limit on the number of cars they can cram in there.

The three Asia-Pacific races will also constitute the Asian Le Mans series and the ELMS will be the four European races.
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Old 23 Jul 2012, 19:43 (Ref:3110486)   #58
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I think they should work more on the continental series - ALMS, ELMS and AsLMS. The world championship should be only a few selected rounds within the already existing series.
Ex;
Sebring 12hrs
Le Mans 24hrs
Spa 6hrs
Suzuka 8hrs
Road Atlanta/PLM 10hrs
The title should go to the car/driver(s) who accumulated the most points from these rounds - with no obligation to participate in all of these rounds - will be crowned world champions.
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Old 23 Jul 2012, 19:48 (Ref:3110487)   #59
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I think the WEC can be a success, so long as it sticks to its strengths and doesn't go after 'new markets' too quickly, if at all. As a few people have said there is no point having endurance races in places with no fans, so we can scratch Bahrain off straight away, no matter the $'s on offer. Endurance racing isn't a TV sport either, not live anyway, the races are just too long. A couple of hours live and a highlights package on Eurosport is fine by me. Sportscar racing to me is always going to be an ethusiasts game, not something someone chewing on their Sunday lunch just happens to flick on. The cars are spectacular live though. So I would concentrate on advertising the actual races, with cheap tickets and high access to actual fans. Something that a dad maybe take his son to for a day out. I'd try as much as possible to make each race an event to get bums on seats. I went to Silverstone last year, but only because I actively sought it out. You'd never now it was actually going on, which can't be good. I think that Sportscars are at their best at hight speed, so I would try as much as possible to avoid the modern Tilkadromes with all their switch back hairpins to contrive overtaking in F1, they aren't needed.
Sportscar racing historically, and arguably even more so recently, is a European and North American thing, so don't shoot yourselves in the foot by avoiding these places. My calendar would be, with an emphasis on the history of the old WSC:
Sebring
Monza
Spa
Le Mans
Nurburgring
Silverstone
Petit Le Mans (Watkins Glen)
Suzuka/Fuji
Zuhai/Shanghai
Interlagos/Buenos Aires

Sebring is a fantastic race. Monza with all its history and high speeds can't be ignored, likewise Spa. Le Mans speaks for itself, Germany has to have a race and although the new Nurburgring is a bit of a dogs dinner Hockenheim is even worse and all its other circuits a bit fiddly. The dream would be to use the Nordschleife, but it aint gonna happen. I think you have to have a race in UK, but may be biased. I think Petit Le Mans has to stay too/come back, but maybe not at Atlanta as the course is too small. I'd prefer Watkins Glen as an alternative because it is a fantastic flowing circuit, but is owned by the France (French?) family who run NASCAR and the Rolex Series so that may not be possible. Races in Asia are a necessity, and to be fair the Japanese love their racing. I'm not fussed which circuits they choose, but I have to admit the thought of LMP1's zipping through 130R and the S's is a nice one. I'd have a race in South America, preferably Beunos Aires full circuit, as even back in the 50's they had them there.
I'd also pointto the example of the World Rally Championship as a case study in the dangers of giving manufacturers too much say, ignoring your core fans in favour of TV sponsorship money, and having events in places with no fans. Before you know whats happened you'll end up with races with a small grid of expensive manufacturer cars, in events with no pulling power watched by tiny crowds. Only to find everyone is still just watching Football and F1 on their TV's.

Oh, and you need stability. Changing the rules and the calendar evey year never lets anyone build anything.

Oh, and PPS, you need to integrate the regional series, ALMS, ELMS, AsiaLMS in with it to bulk out the grids and give the privateers something to aim at.
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Old 23 Jul 2012, 20:15 (Ref:3110503)   #60
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I would like to have included PLM but it wouldn't have been practical with the limit on the number of cars they can cram in there.
.
PLM would be just fine if WEC was restricted to just P1 cars.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 06:24 (Ref:3110632)   #61
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Just as warning to those who are saying they think the WEC should be LMP1 only. Say you have 4 works teams - Porsche, Audi, Toyota, Honda for arguments sake - each with 3 cars,and you have 8 or so privateers. That leaves you with a grid of 20 cars or so, which you could just about get away with. Then, the manufacturers who are always filling the places 7th - 12th start to think 'why are we parading around the world with expensive cars to achieve nothing?', and pull out, a la Toyota, Honda and BMW in F1. Then you are left with a grid of 10 or so cars, you have an embarassing race, contracts are cancelled and the series is stopped.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 06:28 (Ref:3110636)   #62
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I'd prefer Watkins Glen as an alternative because it is a fantastic flowing circuit, but is owned by the France (French?) family who run NASCAR and the Rolex Series so that may not be possible.
Sure, NASCAR and the Rolex Series could race in other tracks not owned by the ISC. But other series wants to race in ISC track and we're denied by the France family, that's not fair! I wish they could share their tracks to the likes of ALMS, IndyCar, and the WEC.

And besides, the France family aren't even French... They're American.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 06:45 (Ref:3110640)   #63
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Just as warning to those who are saying they think the WEC should be LMP1 only. Say you have 4 works teams - Porsche, Audi, Toyota, Honda for arguments sake - each with 3 cars,and you have 8 or so privateers. That leaves you with a grid of 20 cars or so, which you could just about get away with. Then, the manufacturers who are always filling the places 7th - 12th start to think 'why are we parading around the world with expensive cars to achieve nothing?', and pull out, a la Toyota, Honda and BMW in F1. Then you are left with a grid of 10 or so cars, you have an embarassing race, contracts are cancelled and the series is stopped.
Nobody says that the WEC races should be P1 only. P1 as a series should be P1 only, but the regional series should serve as a supporting cast for the WEC-races.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 12:04 (Ref:3110772)   #64
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Sure, NASCAR and the Rolex Series could race in other tracks not owned by the ISC. But other series wants to race in ISC track and we're denied by the France family, that's not fair! I wish they could share their tracks to the likes of ALMS, IndyCar, and the WEC.

And besides, the France family aren't even French... They're American.
Indy has raced at ISC tracks.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 13:08 (Ref:3110793)   #65
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I'm presuming this was a response to my post?
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I don't care if Le Mans is the big race; just one race isn't enough.
I didn't mean for there to be only one race. I'm happy for Le Mans, Sebring and all the other to exist and have common rules. I don't think there should be a "World Championship" for it. Winning a WEC means nothing, you're a champion at nothing. Just have a series of races and get satisfaction watching them for that race and, for competitors, satisfaction from success in those races.

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Elsewhere in the world of racing, CART was FAR MORE to me than merely the Indianapolis 500.
I agree. However, what are you the champion of when you win CART? Are you the North American champion racing driver? You certainly are not the World Champion. You win the Indy 500, you win the biggest, most prestigious, single race on the planet. Only winning an F1 title is better, not even Monaco is better. Not even winning a lot of races without a title is as good as Indy. Atm, definitely, You have to offer me 17 wins, including multiple Australian, Belgian and Monaco wins before before I'd take a non-title, multiple F1 winning career over an Indy 500. Winning races, particularly big ones, is all that counts.


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Apart from "futbol" and Wimbledon, the typical stick and ball games/sports just don't do it for me.
You should get into cricket. I'm telling you, it's seriously good.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 16:26 (Ref:3110865)   #66
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You win the Indy 500, you win the biggest, most prestigious, single race on the planet
What year is this, 1926?

Also, nowadays winning the WRC title is about as celebrated as Charlie Sheen's late career
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 16:30 (Ref:3110868)   #67
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Except, without a championship (whether ELMS, ALMS, or WEC), would those other races even be held at all? I'm pretty sure many of them would simply cease to exist without that strand tying them together.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 16:33 (Ref:3110869)   #68
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Just as warning to those who are saying they think the WEC should be LMP1 only. Say you have 4 works teams - Porsche, Audi, Toyota, Honda for arguments sake - each with 3 cars,and you have 8 or so privateers. That leaves you with a grid of 20 cars or so, which you could just about get away with. Then, the manufacturers who are always filling the places 7th - 12th start to think 'why are we parading around the world with expensive cars to achieve nothing?', and pull out, a la Toyota, Honda and BMW in F1. Then you are left with a grid of 10 or so cars, you have an embarassing race, contracts are cancelled and the series is stopped.
hmmmm. Sounds like the FIA GT1 World Championship
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 16:41 (Ref:3110872)   #69
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You win the Indy 500, you win the biggest, most prestigious, single race on the planet.
This simply hasn't been true for well over a decade.. maybe since the Champcar split.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 17:02 (Ref:3110879)   #70
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I bet no-one but maybe 100 people in Finland know what Indy 500 is. Multiply that number by 1,000 for Le Mans (if I'm being optimistic). x50,000 for Monaco GP

Obviously these numbers vary from country to country but it's arguably not even the biggest / most watched motorsport event in US
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 17:29 (Ref:3110890)   #71
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I bet no-one but maybe 100 people in Finland know what Indy 500 is. Multiply that number by 1,000 for Le Mans (if I'm being optimistic). x50,000 for Monaco GP

Obviously these numbers vary from country to country but it's arguably not even the biggest / most watched motorsport event in US
It isn't the highest rated in the US by a large number, the Daytona 500 blows it away and many other random NASCAR Sprint Cup races get higher ratings than it. I think it's claim is the attendance and it's historic value. Okay, a lot of that has to do with the state of the series that races in it, but it just isn't that big of a deal anymore even stateside.

To be honest, except for the United States and Canada (with the exception of Quebec), I can go into any airport in nearly any country and tell them about F1, and they'll know that I'm talking about. Same thing for the Monaco Grand Prix, and a lot of places it's the same thing for MotoGP. MotoGP seems to be a household name in Spain, everywhere you go you see adverts, posters ect.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 20:05 (Ref:3110940)   #72
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I bet no-one but maybe 100 people in Finland know what Indy 500 is. Multiply that number by 1,000 for Le Mans (if I'm being optimistic). x50,000 for Monaco GP
That would suggest that roughly 5 million people in Finland know what the Monaco GP is.

Given that Finland has a population of just slightly over 5 million, they must watch F1 at a very young age!

Best known race on the planet...is....Grand Theft Auto.

and then the Indy 500!
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 20:11 (Ref:3110943)   #73
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Shouldn't the question be, how to improve the present and future of LM style racing, under the ACO rules umbrella?
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 21:10 (Ref:3110967)   #74
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That would suggest that roughly 5 million people in Finland know what the Monaco GP is.

Given that Finland has a population of just slightly over 5 million, they must watch F1 at a very young age!

Best known race on the planet...is....Grand Theft Auto.

and then the Indy 500!
Also considering that there have been a few Finnish F1 and WRC drivers they certainly know that kind of motorposrt more than Indy 500.

If Kimi did a 1 off at the Indy 500 all of Finland would know.
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Old 24 Jul 2012, 21:17 (Ref:3110973)   #75
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The main change I would make would be with the calendar, it would look something like this:

1) Philip Island 6 Hours (Feb) - with AsLMS
2) Sebring 12 Hours (Mar) - with ALMS
3) Monza 6 Hours (Apr) - with ELMS
4) Spa 6 Hours (May) - with ELMS
5) Le Mans (Jun)
6) Nurburgring 6 Hours (Jul) - with ELMS
7) Silverstone 6 Hours (Aug) - with ELMS
8) Interlagos 1000 miles/10 Hours (Sep)
9) India 6 Hours (Oct) - with AsLMS
10) Fuji 6 Hours (Nov) - with AsLMS

I would like to have included PLM but it wouldn't have been practical with the limit on the number of cars they can cram in there.
I like the Aussie round, however, Philip Island, Fuji, and Road Atlanta are all roughly the same size with the former being a few hundred yards longer.
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Silverstone WEC tickets Nick49 ACO Regulated Series 23 9 Feb 2012 22:28
[WEC] 2012 WEC Entries JAG ACO Regulated Series 894 2 Feb 2012 14:49
Dream WEC Calendar GT3.14 ACO Regulated Series 38 29 Nov 2011 08:22


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