Round 6: The 103rd Indianapolis 500, 14th-26th May.

[mstets]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

I'd like Pippa Mann to win - underdog driver in a small team, first female winner a year after being bumped and all that, would be a great story.

I think Ed Carpenter is going to take the victory this year.

The Clauson-Marshall team has been very much neglected by the media. They were every bit as instrumental in knocking out McLaren as Juncos, and (I'm guessing here) with even less funding and experience. Honestly can't foresee much better than top 15 for her if all goes well, but it would be welcome to be proven wrong.

[mstets]

Originally Posted by jimclark

'Like the looks of this one at the moment. (Indianapolis, hour by hour)
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...napolis/hourly
Rain stopping at 8-9 a.m.; time to dry the track; hopefully a few hours to get the race in before the rain again. The site's been pretty good to me....we'll see. And, of course (dang it), things change.....'specially the weather.
How's that song go? "it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summer time...."
Yeah....right.

They got the track dried much quicker than I expected on Sunday. Rain delays are really hard on the teams. In '86 we had police escort at 5 AM to get to the track after a restless night of sleep/non-sleep. The rain never let up and we raced a week later. I remember laying on a shelf under a bench in the garage during the rain delay on Sunday, trying to sleep but I don't think I did. Just a long miserable wasted day. Funny but I don't recall why the race wasn't held on Monday. Hoping for a long enough window to get the race done on Sunday.

[S griffin]

McLaren are now saying an alliance is probably better in the future. It was brave of them to do it alone, but it's clear they haven't enough experience in this field to just turn up and go well. So I think this is the right move for them

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by S griffin

McLaren are now saying an alliance is probably better in the future. It was brave of them to do it alone, but it's clear they haven't enough experience in this field to just turn up and go well. So I think this is the right move for them

Prolly, these days.
Brown was pretty candid yesterday (Thursday, actually) during interview during Monaco practice.
I still believe that they would've been in the field if it was the month of May as in days of yore....

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by mstets

Rain delays are really hard on the teams. In '86 we had police escort at 5 AM to get to the track after a restless night of sleep/non-sleep. The rain never let up and we raced a week later. I remember laying on a shelf under a bench in the garage during the rain delay on Sunday, trying to sleep but I don't think I did. Just a long miserable wasted day. Funny but I don't recall why the race wasn't held on Monday.

I didn't either, so looked it up. Many factors. Excerpted from Wikipedia:

"On Monday May 26, there was no chance to hold the race, as it rained all day. The infield turned into a sea of mud, and most of the spectators had since departed, going home to their jobs. Authorities estimated Monday's attendance at a paltry 5,800 spectators. Those who did arrive merely milled around, as most of the infield was impassable, concession stands were out of food, and souvenir tents were empty and abandoned. Some visited the Speedway museum.

At 3:20 p.m., officials announced that the race was going to be postponed, but did not yet announce the date or time to which it would be rescheduled. Unsubstantiated rumors even circulated about canceling the race outright.[21] ABC television was scheduled to cover the race live for the first time, but did not commit to live coverage on Tuesday. Track officials were faced with the possibility of running the race on Tuesday in front of empty grandstands, and without live TV coverage. Weather forecasts for Tuesday and Wednesday were not promising,[21] a substantial amount of the track staff was unavailable,[21] and the sloppy conditions made parts of the facility impassable. Around 6 p.m. on Monday evening, a deal had been struck to reschedule the race for Saturday May 31."

I 'member now.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Prolly, these days.

Brown was pretty candid yesterday (Thursday, actually) during interview during Monaco practice.

I still believe that they would've been in the field if it was the month of May as in days of yore....

Of course. The likes of Jim Clark, G. Hill and Black Jack all did it, but now times are different. I can’t put my finger on why this is, other than being behind the full timers in general

[skycafe]

Times are different. Brabham ushered in the mid-engine era with Cooper. That layout would bring revolution to Indy, and he was already comfortable in driving them. Same with Clark and Hill. They were used to hustling around mid-engine cars. Those were pre-aero days.

Years before Fangio, who knew front engined cars, left Indy having failed to come to grips with the place (car & location).

I wonder if Brabham, Clark and Hill would have done very well in roadsters?

These days we hear how complicated, and specialized, the setup is on these cars, and that you can't drive around your issues.
I read somewhere the other day a synopsis of the McLaren failure. One item mentioned was that part of the crew were using the US system of measure and another part the crew was on metric...so they had confusion in setup (I think that was given as a reason for the car dragging the rear end on the track). The data they collected had to be suspect after finding out about the confusion in measurements, so how much time and money did they waste before that was discovered? Had to be demoralizing.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Of course. The likes of Jim Clark, G. Hill and Black Jack all did it, but now times are different. I can’t put my finger on why this is, other than being behind the full timers in general

methinks you misunderstood. I meant that if they had three weeks to get it right like they had in years gone by; not if he ran back then. McLaren won Indy back then with Rutherford in '74. In '72 also, though it was a Penske prepped McLaren (not a kit car) and Donahue.

The less than one week they got this year didn't do justice and they weren't all that far off. Two more weeks probably would've got them in.....

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by jimclark

. McLaren won Indy back then with Rutherford in '74. In '72 also, though it was a Penske prepped McLaren (not a kit car) and Donahue.

Lone Star JR was a veteran of the place, and ovals by the time McLaren signed him, I am sure he brought a lot to the equation of their success there.

Captain Nice had Indy experience and was an unparalleled driver/engineer, and was with Penske, who even then were considered a tpo, if not the top team.

Jimclark, do you know what the makeup of McLaren's at track engineering was in those days? Gone from my memory at this point.

[ggreen29]

AP has a story, McLaren's failed Indy 500 effort was a comedy of errors. As a commenter said it's a wonder Zak didn't get fired.

No Steering Wheel
Zak: "We didn't get out until midday [in April], our steering wheel was not done on time....Zak Brown should not be digging around for steering wheels."

Odd Orange
The car "was not the proper McLaren "papaya orange." It had to be repainted after the test [in April], and that still had not been completed when Alonso crashed his McLaren-built car...more than a month after McLaren complained about the color, and it ultimately cost McLaren almost two full days of track time.

Electrical Misfiring
"The car had an electrical issue in last month's test at Indy and an employee was taken off the team for the error."

Insensitive Sensors
"Fast Friday qualifying run was sabotaged by a tire puncture — which wasn't detected beforehand because Brown said the team had purchased incorrect tire sensors."

Metric Mistake
"Alonso went out to practice Sunday with an entirely new setup, but in the frantic changeover a mistake was made in converting inches to the metric system the English team uses and the car scraped and sparked on his first lap."

Gearing
"We actually had a 229 (mph) car but we had 227.5 gearing, so we beat ourselves again while we almost made it," Brown said.

I hope for the sake of the sponsors they had a no show clause in the contract.

[skycafe]

Hopefully the sponsors had an incompetence claus in the contract....

[Damian Baldi]

In a visit to Juncos Racing workshop, somebody took these pictures of the tubr of the WhiteRabbit car that suffered the crash. They said it could be repaired by Dallara, but they have to review the cost/beneffic to do that.

[mstets]

Hate to see that. Wonder what Dallara gets for a new tub vs. the cost of repairing that kind of damage.


I remember putting a March 84C tub in our dumpster after a crash at MIS. I don't think it looked as bad as the Juncos car. Our Snap-On man fished it out of the dumpster and took it home. Wonder where it is now.

[mstets]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Hopefully the sponsors had an incompetence claus in the contract....

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the metric conversion thing...


They must have used a conversion factor that was fairly close, or the ride height change would have been obvious. Wondering if someone used 24.5 instead of 25.4.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Hopefully the sponsors had an incompetence claus in the contract....

The Zak Brown clause?

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Jimclark, do you know what the makeup of McLaren's at track engineering was in those days? Gone from my memory at this point.

Errrggghhh....
Nearly 50 years ago....the only name I remember associated to McLaren's Indy racing (and previously, the Bruce and Denny Show....errr...I meanCan Am) is Tyler Alexander. (Teddy Mayer's name comes to mind too, for some reason)

edit: Ahhhh, a little digging and, from https://www.mclaren.com/racing/herit...ler-alexander/ :

"In 1983, Tyler departed McLaren, reuniting with Teddy Mayer to run an Indycar team in North America, where they recruited a talented young engineer named Adrian Newey. The pair became firm friends, and their mutual respect and admiration bound them together for their next two ventures – into Formula 1, with Carl Haas’ Beatrice Lola team in 1985, and a return to Indycars, this time running the legendary Mario Andretti for Newman Haas Racing."

Originally Posted by ggreen29

I hope for the sake of the sponsors they had a no show clause in the contract.

They prolly got more exposure from the week's effort than some teams sponsors do in many seasons (let alone the 500 itself) of Indy car racing....

[Armco Bender]

Whats the weather update?,the race is on early in the morning here and if theres going to be a rain delay I can sleep in or count sheep.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Whats the weather update?,the race is on early in the morning here and if theres going to be a rain delay I can sleep in or count sheep.

Not looking good. And I was hoping they'd at least get some in (less than half so they wouldn't call it a race) today to fill the gap 'twixt Monaco and the World...errr...Coca Cola 600 tonight.

Have a gander:

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...napolis/hourly

[Armco Bender]

Cheers...I wont set the alarm then,looks dodgy for a race at all..

[broadrun96]

Yup, looks like the race may be a no go for today. Already dealing with storm warnings this morning and the hourly doesn't look good until after dark. And Monday looks worse.

Yup, EARLY rise here to fire up the smoker. Sadly it looks like only Monaco for racing today.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Sadly it looks like only Monaco for racing today.

Charlotte weather too? I haven't checked yet since that's later.....
Boo-hisss.

edit: never mind...'looking good, 'cept for the high temp.

[fieldodreams79]

Charlotte is gonna be ridiculously hot like it is all over the southeast.

Glancing at the Indy Doppler and the movement, I say there's a fighting chance to get a race in. It'll certainly be touch n go if they get a start. Or it could just come and never leave.....

We're having someone else smoke out que, in the true white American fashion

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Charlotte is gonna be ridiculously hot like it is all over the southeast.

Glancing at the Indy Doppler and the movement, I say there's a fighting chance to get a race in. It'll certainly be touch n go if they get a start. Or it could just come and never leave.....

We're having someone else smoke out que, in the true white American fashion

Yeah, looks like Charlotte will be a sh1tshow of tire wear and drivers fading. It was already warm this morning at 5 am so the heat of the afternoon on the track will be insane. Charlotte is usually all about surviving the heat with a car that can drive at night but today may just be survive close to the lead lap.

It will be interesting to see how fast Indy tries to get everything started to get as many laps in as possible before rains come in

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Yeah, looks like Charlotte will be a sh1tshow of tire wear and drivers fading. It was already warm this morning at 5 am so the heat of the afternoon on the track will be insane. Charlotte is usually all about surviving the heat with a car that can drive at night but today may just be survive close to the lead lap.

It will be interesting to see how fast Indy tries to get everything started to get as many laps in as possible before rains come in

Is it possible to move the race forward? I've seen that done with ELMS and VLN, but they aren't quite the same level as Indy lol.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Errrggghhh....
Nearly 50 years ago....

I'm having the 50 years ago shudder too. Thanks for the McLaren website. I did remember the name Gordan Coppock also, who was designer. I think Mayer's role was like GM. I guess he was doing strategy too, which is probably more evolved into a bigger role now.

Bummer about the weather forcast.